the infamous gear actuators

[j3gq]

I have seen all the posts on the subject, that Plessey is no more, and Eaton actuators cost an arm and a leg, but ...
with so many Mooneys still flying, is there no way that some company receives a PMA (or the like) and manufactures
one hundred units ? and if that can't be done, is it because of
- cost (hard to imagine)
- technical complexity (harder to imagine)
- or legal issues (e.g. Mooney doesn't give permission) ?

Thanks ! any insight appreciated

[carusoam]

OH and several Mooney dismantlers must be keeping the supply lines full...

Do you need one?

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

The are generally pretty durable.   Other than also used as a flap motor on a citation, their is not a large market.

[j3gq]

I do!
Two shops told me 'no joy', they wouldn't know where to find spares. Barnstormers etc no results either.
And investing 24 grand into the Eaton replacement from Mooney is beyond reach.
Would you have any suggestions, carusoam ?

[Yetti]

What's broke on it.   Rebuild the motor or replace the gears, it's not that hard.

[j3gq]

Hi yetti,
any further insight welcome. In general I agree with you, the problem starts when the bird is already in the shop.
And on the other hand, why did people back in 2000-2015 (see posts) pay premiums or tried to stock pile ?
Or is this all about a part an IA can approve vs. a part he cannot see has been rebuilt or replaced ?
Am I missing sth ?

In my case it's the worn out gear and some other follow-up damage I cannot well describe at the moment.
Best Regards
 

[ArtVandelay]

What about Aeromotorsllc.com, they overhaul our electric fuel pumps?

[EricJ]

I think a lot of stuff like this, e.g., the gears, lend themselves to owner-produced parts.  With the increased access to CNC machines as well as additive manufacturing, really only one person creating a drawing and sharing the drawing will enable anybody to take the drawing (or design file) and a suitable material selection to a fabricator and have the part made.

There've been a few things identified that would be good for this, including travel boards, actuator gears, etc.

[carusoam]

In the recycled parts arena, we have...

@Alan Fox

@acpartswhse

@SheryLoewen

Click on the blue name card and find their private message button let them know what you need with as much detail as you can...

Also check with your local MSC, if you don’t have one... may I suggest... Lasar... speak with Dan...

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

19 hours ago, carusoam said:

OH and several Mooney dismantlers must be keeping the supply lines full...

Do you need one?

Best regards,

-a-

They’re life limited parts. Not sure I’d want a used one and then have to do it again. 
 

-Robert 

[j3gq]

20 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

They’re life limited parts. Not sure I’d want a used one and then have to do it again. 
 

-Robert 

Hello Robert,
Where does one find information or requirements that these are life limited parts, and why do they not show up
in rotating items lists (as far as I know) as life limited ? What part in the actuator does actually deteriorate with time ?
Any further information appreciated !!

Best

[RobertGary1]

1 hour ago, j3gq said:

Hello Robert,
Where does one find information or requirements that these are life limited parts, and why do they not show up
in rotating items lists (as far as I know) as life limited ? What part in the actuator does actually deteriorate with time ?
Any further information appreciated !!

Best

AD 75-23-04 requires 200 hour inspection for Dukes gears and replacement based on measurment. ITT have the same gears, but no AD so most find it wise to follow the AD with ITT too. The gears wear down. I've replaced mine a couple times over the decades. They are sometimes easy to buy from the MSC and sometimes unavailable.

Replacing the old "fast" years with slower 40:1 gears reduces the issue but makes the gear move 1/2 speed. It doesn't null the AD though.

-Robert

Edited October 17, 2019 by RobertGary1

[ArtVandelay]

AD 75-23-04 requires 200 hour inspection for Dukes gears and replacement based on measurment. ITT have the same gears, but no AD so most find it wise to follow the AD with ITT too. The gears wear down. I've replaced mine a couple times over the decades. They are sometimes easy to buy from the MSC and sometimes unavailable.

Replacing the old "fast" years with slower 40:1 gears reduces the issue but makes the gear move 1/2 speed. It doesn't null the AD though.

-Robert

I noticed no mention of the Eatons


Tom

[Yetti]

10 hours ago, j3gq said:

Hello Robert,
Where does one find information or requirements that these are life limited parts, and why do they not show up
in rotating items lists (as far as I know) as life limited ? What part in the actuator does actually deteriorate with time ?
Any further information appreciated !!

Best

Call a real Mooney Service Center or the factory.   SWTA  http://www.swta.net/

It would be good to have the parts number before you call.    Eaton has catalogs online. Exploded diagrams are fun.   Also the Mooney Parts and Service Manual.

[j3gq]

On 10/16/2019 at 8:34 PM, ArtVandelay said:

What about Aeromotorsllc.com, they overhaul our electric fuel pumps?

I am working on this, not sure (yet) they are interested, but they are looking at pictures I provided.
Will report back in a few days. If anybody had ideas what other companies might be able to do such a job, please report it here.

Edited October 19, 2019 by j3gq

[j3gq]

On 10/16/2019 at 6:36 PM, carusoam said:

OH and several Mooney dismantlers must be keeping the supply lines full...

Do you need one?

Best regards,

-a-

checked with 4 of them, so far no results

[j3gq]

On 10/16/2019 at 7:52 PM, Yetti said:

What's broke on it.   Rebuild the motor or replace the gears, it's not that hard.

I will happily look into this, but let me ask you this, would this solve the no-back-spring issue, if your actuator has been used for 20 years and 3000 hours ? I doubt one can merely inspect the spring, and go ahead ? please let me know what you think.

[j3gq]

On 10/18/2019 at 1:04 AM, Yetti said:

t would be good to have the parts number before you call.    Eaton has catalogs online. Exploded diagrams are fun.   Also the Mooney Parts and Service Manual.

I found the Eaton website(s), some part numbers, etc. but otherwise very little information - no catalog, and certainly no exploded diagrams. Any chance you might be able to help me ?

[Yetti]

Is your backspring broken or is your IA making you replace it?

 

 

[j3gq]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

Is your backspring broken or is your IA making you replace it?

Hello Yetti, I have seen these blogs. There are just a lot of opinions and a bit of confusion, but few facts. My no-back-spring isn't broken and the IA doesn't care, as you probably guessed Let me summarize what I believe to know. A failure of the nbs (in Eaton or GEC actuator) will damage the actuator and impede further movement. When this happens on ground (say your annual) ... you're grounded. If it happens in flight the emergency gear extension will not work and you are having a not so cheap landing. Does any nbs last forever ? Hardly. Does it typically last 50 years or 10,000 gear cycles ? We don't know. Have there been failure cases early in life? Yes, a few. Nobody has the numbers.

Here is the caveat. If I owned a Mooney with Eaton act. I'd replace the nsb sooner or later but kept flying as you suggested. If I owned a Mooney with GEC/Plessey act., I would still keep flying but try to find an Eaton replacement within the next 500h (a plausible number, you choose yours). BUT ... if I got offered an otherwise really nice Mooney with GEC act., with 5000 hours and 5000 landings on the counter, and the SB never done ... I would ... hmm ...

Here is my question to you: buy and pray ? Emphatically NO. You see, the buyer's take is very different from the owner's take. And that's where it gets interesting. Any buyer would want a solution before signing the bill of sale. And that forces all owners (=  future seller ...) to look for solutions too. Which brings me back to the beginning of the blog.

Thanks to all of you for your inputs.

[Yetti]

I have never been inside an Eaton.  I have been inside an ITT Actuator.  The ITT is very well built with machining similar to a fine firearm.   You are going to cycle this say 150 times per year.   The unanswered question was how many cycles the Engineer designed them for.   Should we say 10,000.    So there is your math.   Can you replace the gears, have a brass disc machined?  Yep.  Proper maintenance of replacing the grease and maybe the gears?   Also lubing the mains to reduce friction is a good thing.    I would say the camshaft on a lycoming is a bigger risk and the same price to fix.

[laytonl]

I had to replace the  plessey gear motor in my 92 Mooney.  I found a used Eaton and had it overhauled by Lasar.  Don’t recall which salvage yard had the Eaton. Paid $2,000 for the core and then $2,500 for the Lasar overhaul, including no-back spring.  Lee

[Guest]

20 hours ago, j3gq said:

I found the Eaton website(s), some part numbers, etc. but otherwise very little information - no catalog, and certainly no exploded diagrams. Any chance you might be able to help me ?

I don’t know if this will help you.

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/service_instructions/sim20-112_Rev_A.pdf

Clarence

[j3gq]

to Clarence, thanks for trying to help !
No, we are looking for information on the J-models with Eaton or Plessey actuators. The Dukes mentioned here were used on the vintage (pre-J) models.

[EricJ]

4 hours ago, M20Doc said:

I don’t know if this will help you.

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/4147179/technical_documents/service_instructions/sim20-112_Rev_A.pdf

Clarence

I like how Figure 2 shows putting Loctite in the bearing.