At first annual, have found illegal engine modifications

[mike_elliott]

18 hours ago, hmasing said:

Yes, that's me, and I combined the tear-down with an annual, and that's why we're finding these things. We're going over everything with a fine-toothed comb, and fixing the stuff that isn't right.

It appears the prebuy missed the old style throttle cable end that has been superceded with an SB from Mooney and should have been dealt with long ago. This "err" cost you a prop strike and teardown it seems, but that may be a good thing. Get that sucker to a knowledgeable Mooney mechanic so he can "fix" what has been neglected and ignored if you have solid bones. Your prebuy guy was less than stellar for sure.

 

[Wistarmo]

For what it’s worth, I have bought two used aircraft and each time I paid for an annual inspection with my mechanic at my expense rather than a pre-buy inspection. I also placed a deposit in escrow. The signed sales agreements in both cases stated that if the plane passed the annual, and/or the seller corrected any airworthiness deficiencies, he would then receive the deposit. If not, then I would keep the deposit and the seller received a free annual inspection. Both times the sellers readily agreed to this arrangement and it worked out fine. Saved me a ton of worry, both sales went through, found a lot of problems in advance. 

[Shadrach]

20 minutes ago, Wistarmo said:

For what it’s worth, I have bought two used aircraft and each time I paid for an annual inspection with my mechanic at my expense rather than a pre-buy inspection. I also placed a deposit in escrow. The signed sales agreements in both cases stated that if the plane passed the annual, and/or the seller corrected any airworthiness deficiencies, he would then receive the deposit. If not, then I would keep the deposit and the seller received a free annual inspection. Both times the sellers readily agreed to this arrangement and it worked out fine. Saved me a ton of worry, both sales went through, found a lot of problems in advance. 

That's sound advice but not practical if you and your mx are in SE Michigan and the plane is 1300 miles away in SW Florida.  This is why I try to keep my purchases as local as possible.

[DXB]

1 hour ago, mike_elliott said:

It appears the prebuy missed the old style throttle cable end that has been superceded with an SB from Mooney and should have been dealt with long ago. This "err" cost you a prop strike and teardown it seems, but that may be a good thing. Get that sucker to a knowledgeable Mooney mechanic so he can "fix" what has been neglected and ignored if you have solid bones. Your prebuy guy was less than stellar for sure.

 

I think it was his mixture cable, not the throttle that detached?  

[Skates97]

20 hours ago, Yetti said:

Post pictures.   It is kind of a sport around here to point out things that are wrong.

Very true, also something to remember when you are just posting pictures for fun, not specifically for people to help you find things wrong with your plane...

[Shadrach]

35 minutes ago, DXB said:

I think it was his mixture cable, not the throttle that detached?  

Byron's mixture cable detached.  Is there a thread on this aircraft's runway departure?

 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, Yetti said:

@carusoamThe Napa fuel line looks to be the one from the gas collator hard line to the intake of the mechanical fuel pump.   The solenoid in the pic is the starter solenoid that sits on the pilot foot well.   The Napa Fuel line would be rated to 12 PSI or so.   Since we know the elect fuel pump puts out 30 PSI  there is a big risk of fuel being in places where it should not be.

The "NAPA fuel line" in the photo clearly has "NOT FOR FUEL INJECTION USE" written down the side of it. Regardless of pressure rating, that would bother me a lot! My car's fuel pump puts out 45-50 psi . . . .

[Guest]

Only my opinion, but the fuel line in the picture is 1/4” diameter, so it’s highly unlikely that it’s anything other than the fuel vent line from the engine fuel pump.

Clarence

[FloridaMan]

That fuel line might also go to the panel mounted fuel pressure gauge if it’s the original. There’s a chance the owner may have cut corners in a bind. If the plane has the original fuel pressure gauge in the panel (combined with MP, if I remember correctly), I recommend installing an engine monitor. You will have continued issues with factory gauges that may cost you more than the engine monitor in aggregate. The fuel line that ran to my firewall in my 67F was weeping fuel onto the exhaust. The line on the other side of the firewall that ran to the gauge was original and from 1967. 

[Yetti]

6 minutes ago, FloridaMan said:

That fuel line might also go to the panel mounted fuel pressure gauge if it’s the original. There’s a chance the owner may have cut corners in a bind. If the plane has the original fuel pressure gauge in the panel (combined with MP, if I remember correctly), I recommend installing an engine monitor. You will have continued issues with factory gauges that may cost you more than the engine monitor in aggregate. The fuel line that ran to my firewall in my 67F was weeping fuel onto the exhaust. The line on the other side of the firewall that ran to the gauge was original and from 1967. 

Nope.  that fuel line runs from the fuel servo up the right side of the engine through the right side of the firewall.   That said everyone should have teflon hoses inside the cabin for Fuel Pressure gauge since it does have fuel in it.

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, Yetti said:

Nope.  that fuel line runs from the fuel servo up the right side of the engine through the right side of the firewall.   That said everyone should have teflon hoses inside the cabin for Fuel Pressure gauge since it does have fuel in it.

See @M20Doc's post.  I was suspect of the pic when I saw it and the OPs reluctance to post detailed pics of all of the offences has me skeptical that the situation is the nightmare picture that he's painted...

[Yetti]

6 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

See @M20Doc's post.  I was suspect of the pic when I saw it and the OPs reluctance to post detailed pics of all of the offences has me skeptical that the situation is the nightmare picture that he's painted...

Oh God I have been suckered into drama on MooneySpace.   The one last bastion of real and work avoiding space in my life.    I am off to huddle in the corner of a clear mountain stream in the high reaches of the Nepal wilderness.

[Wistarmo]

7 hours ago, Shadrach said:

That's sound advice but not practical if you and your mx are in SE Michigan and the plane is 1300 miles away in SW Florida.  This is why I try to keep my purchases as local as possible.

I agree completely.  But before I spent tens of thousands of dollars, or hundreds of thousands, I would buy a round trip airline ticket for the seller to bring it to me, or alternatively throw in a couple of nights at a local hotel.  I would also offer to come up and take it to the annual. Or at least take it to a very reliable MSC.  Would I let someone take my plane that far away?  Probably not. Would I take my plane somewhere at buyer’s expense for a free annual? Yes, especially if they put me up during a free annual inspection and paid for fuel. For me, if I am a buyer spending that kind of money, I want to get her into my hangar without any expensive, heartbreaking, frightening discoveries.  And fighting legal battles a thousand miles away can get expensive. Your advice to buy local is very sound. In any event, no matter how nice the plane, money spent avoiding a stomach ache is well spent. 

[Guest]

To add further clarity on the prop governor oil transfer line, which there seems to be confusion.  Ref AD 90-04-06R1.  A hose is an approved option to the original stainless steel tube installed by Lycoming.  Just the hose doesn’t come from NAPA.

Clarence

(b) At the next engine overhaul or anytime the governor oil line is removed for any reason, whichever occurs first, but no later than May 1, 1992, remove any governor oil line assembly having integral aluminum connecting nuts and reinstall an oil line assembly with corresponding steel connecting nuts. Replace any engine case/governor aluminum fittings with corresponding steel fittings as shown in Figure 1 of Appendix 1 to this AD. 

NOTE: The attachment nuts are components of the governor oil line tube assembly and have been changed by Textron Lycoming from aluminum to steel without changing the oil line part number. Aluminum nuts may be identified by their blue colored anodized surface. The attachment nuts as well as the elbow/nipple end fittings may also be identified by using a magnet to differentiate aluminum from steel.

(c) An optional method of compliance with paragraph (a)(2) and (b) is the installation of steel fittings and a fire resistant flexible hose assembly which meets the standards in FAA Technical Standard Order TSO- C53a Type D, and is installed in accordance with Appendix 2 of this AD.

[Yetti]

My nut is steel.  used a magnet to check it.

[Hank]

6 minutes ago, Yetti said:

My nut is steel.  used a magnet to check it.

Mine are big and brass. Oh, you meant on the plane!  No idea, didn't go to the airport this evening and won't tomorrow evening, either.

Good luck with your new plane!

[KB4]

PM me and I will try to give you some advice on how to proceed.  I practice in NY, NJ, CT,  and PA but not MI so will be specific to those jurisdictions, but may help.  Where did you close the deal in MI?

[bradp]

I’m confused.  The plane is currently where?

The tear down is complete and the case has been split?

In deciding whether to IRAN or overhaul... you’re already getting some accessories IRANd or OHd. You’re replacing hoses.  Just send to Jewel or Aero engines of Winchester (or similar).  You’ll get some piece of mind from a good engine shop without the $$$ of sending to Lycoming.  Seems like a no-brainer if insurance is paying for accessories / labor to split case and R&R.  You could get a lot of piece of mind without so much cost delta if a lot of the work has already been done.  

[salty]

talk of suing for this stuff?  Good luck, and I hope u enjoy being pissed off, cuz your in for more of that. 

[kerry]

On ‎7‎/‎31‎/‎2019 at 9:59 AM, M20F said:

Don’t have it handy but you can use a flex hose from governor to prop. The solid ones cracked. I think it might even be an AD.  

The AD is on the fittings. Aluminum fitting need to be replaced with steel fittings.

[jetdriven]

On 8/1/2019 at 11:54 AM, Shadrach said:

Byron's mixture cable detached.  Is there a thread on this aircraft's runway departure?

 

No. A normal Landing and taxi to hangar b

[Shadrach]

Just now, jetdriven said:

No. A normal Landing and taxi to hangar b

I know you and your plane made it in fine. The OP’s aircraft is said to have departed the runway resulting in a prop strike. Trying to figure out is there is a thread on that incident and what contributed to it.

[Greg Ellis]

8 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I know you and your plane made it in fine. The OP’s aircraft is said to have departed the runway resulting in a prop strike. Trying to figure out is there is a thread on that incident and what contributed to it.

Just checking if you saw this earlier in this discussion. 

https://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/225165

The OP says this was him.

[mike_elliott]

9 hours ago, jetdriven said:

No. A normal Landing and taxi to hangar b

As an A$P, did you change the cable end to the new style rod end when the SB was issued, Byron, or was this the older ball and socket older planes had originally installed that failed? I remember back when I had my 70 F, I saw this SB and thought "oh, that wont end well if it happens" and had mine changed out. While not mandatory in Pt 91 ops, some of these SB's are very worth considering doing. Some are written in blood.

[bradp]

So the OP had a fuel starvation event from a mixture cable pulling free.  

He subsequently had (a presumably windmilling or standing still) prop strike when he over ran the runway.  

The plane is  still in bowling green MI or was it ferried out somewhere? 

The OP stated he’s assisted in the tear down.   Insurance is paying for some of this.

Was this the original mixture cable the style subject to SB? If so that should have been remedied during the engine “overhaul” unless the accessories were ignored.    

I would posit to insurance company that the faulty maintenance as evidenced mixture control cable, incorrect style hoses resulted in this accident.  I would make a case with insurance to cover a full overhaul.  They may try to subrogate if they agree to go down that path. Even if you have no insurance assist I’d still recommend sending to Jewell and having the fuel servo, oil cooler etc IRANd or OHd.  This mess of an engine and accessories wouldn’t inspire confidence.  You need a fresh start.

Also what’s the deal with the 3 month Alaska registration?  You said the plane was picked up in FL but reg was only 3 mo before a change and AK registrant unloaded the plane in 18 months?  Seems like there may be some history to this plane that we on the public forum don’t know about and I hope the OP does know about.

  

ATE24-Sep-2018	OWNERREGISTRATION PENDING	LOCATIONYPSILANTI MI
DATE23-Mar-2017	OWNERENGLAND NATHANAEL S	LOCATIONANCHORAGE AK
DATE13-Dec-2016	OWNERCOHEN JODY P	LOCATIONNAPLES FL