A good day ends badly in El Paso

[jcovington]

Once again I find myself opening this thread to report I am again having prop issues. About a month ago, after one of our trips, I noticed some brown spots on the cowling and grease on one of the prop blades. Just to recap the prop was resealed in Feb 2017, resealed in Feb 2018, lost a snap ring in December 2018, had a loose blade in Feb 2019 and now slinging grease in Feb 2020. At least this time the prop lasted for about 190 hours before leaking again.

After speaking with Joey Cole of Cole aviation I am shopping for a new prop. My options are McCauley to replace the current one I have or a Hartzelle HC-C2YR-1BFP. I saw the thread discussing replacing a prop damaged by a rock and it looks like the two props are similar in performance. Does anyone have any more information to share to help me make my decision? The good news is I still have about six weeks left before annual is due so I have some time to get the prop ordered to minimize the down time. Price is within $500 so pretty much a wash for cost. Availability is about the same.

Jim

 

[Niko182]

I love my hartzell SS, and hated the McCauley. Granted if i had a hartzel designed in the 70s, and a mcCauley designed in 2004, im sure it would be the opposite.

My vote says super schimitar. I also think they look better

[ArtVandelay]

What’s the weight of your choices, all things being equal, I would choose the lightest.

[Parker_Woodruff]

Recommend the 2-blade Hartzell Top Prop.

3-blade metal props can cause an annoying vibration on your 4-cylinder engine.

[jcovington]

2 hours ago, Niko182 said:

I love my hartzell SS, and hated the McCauley. Granted if i had a hartzel designed in the 70s, and a mcCauley designed in 2004, im sure it would be the opposite.

My vote says super schimitar. I also think they look better

Thanks for the information. I haven't really had any objection to the McCauley prop up until now. It worked great for twelve years and has been a real problem for the past four years.

Jim

[Niko182]

Just now, jcovington said:

Thanks for the information. I haven't really had any objection to the McCauley prop up until now. It worked great for twelve years and has been a real problem for the past four years.

Jim

I think the Hartzell top props are also smoother and quieter. A little heavier, but when flying for a long distance, the stop down in vibration was quite noticeable.

[jcovington]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

What’s the weight of your choices, all things being equal, I would choose the lightest.

Joey said that the Hartzell is about 10 pounds heavier. He mentioned that the McCauley may be slightly faster with less climb. I would probably pick more speed if I can but I am not sure I believe the claim.

Jim

[jcovington]

24 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

Recommend the 2-blade Hartzell Top Prop.

3-blade metal props can cause an annoying vibration on your 4-cylinder engine.

Thanks. I am only considering the two blade prop. I have heard enough concerns about the 3 blade/4 cylinder to not be comfortable taking a chance on a three blade.

Jim

[Niko182]

Just now, jcovington said:

Thanks. I am only considering the two blade prop. I have heard enough concerns about the 3 blade/4 cylinder to not be comfortable taking a chance on a three blade.

Jim

I think the only 3 blade I'd try on the 4 cylinder engines is the MT.

[jcovington]

1 minute ago, Niko182 said:

I think the Hartzell top props are also smoother and quieter. A little heavier, but when flying for a long distance, the stop down in vibration was quite noticeable.

We do fly a lot of long distance so smoother and quieter would be an advantage. The extra weight doesn't concern me too much.

Jim

[jcovington]

Just now, Niko182 said:

I think the only 3 blade I'd try on the 4 cylinder engines is the MT.

Agreed. I have heard good things about the MT except the lead time seems long.

Jim

[ohdub]

I ended up sticking with the McCauley because it is lighter than the Hartzell and I didn't want to give up any useful load or move the c of g further forward.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, jcovington said:

Agreed. I have heard good things about the MT except the lead time seems long.

Jim

The MT is not a very robust design.  A client of mine with a pair of them on his 340 has had a number of difficulties with paint, and more recently we sent one in for cleaning and deluging to coincide with and engine overhaul the prop shop found a bunch of wear on the piston/cylinder.  This part is integral with the hub, at next overhaul they say he’ll be buying an entire hub.

I have an MT on my Comanche and am anticipating a new hub at the 10 year overhaul.

Clarence

[jcovington]

1 hour ago, ohdub said:

I ended up sticking with the McCauley because it is lighter than the Hartzell and I didn't want to give up any useful load or move the c of g further forward.

Thanks for letting me know. I wondered what you did with your prop. Do you recall what the weight difference was? I should probably do a W&B to be sure it isn't a problem for me. 

Jim

[ohdub]

43 minutes ago, jcovington said:

Thanks for letting me know. I wondered what you did with your prop. Do you recall what the weight difference was? I should probably do a W&B to be sure it isn't a problem for me. 

Jim

I don't remember the exact number off the top of my head, but I think that it was about 10lbs - maybe @M20Doc remembers?

[xcrmckenna]

If your hub is only leaking I would put the order in for an MT. You’ll have plenty of time on your current prop by the time it arrives. Sorry to hear about your new issues.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ZuluZulu]

3 hours ago, M20Doc said:

The MT is not a very robust design.  A client of mine with a pair of them on his 340 has had a number of difficulties with paint, and more recently we sent one in for cleaning and deluging to coincide with and engine overhaul the prop shop found a bunch of wear on the piston/cylinder.  This part is integral with the hub, at next overhaul they say he’ll be buying an entire hub.

I have an MT on my Comanche and am anticipating a new hub at the 10 year overhaul.

Clarence

Would you buy the MT again or get something else?

[Guest]

45 minutes ago, ZuluZulu said:

Would you buy the MT again or get something else?

In the case of my Comanche, the MT is the only STC available to me, so I have no other choice.  The old Hartzell was quoted at $40K for Hartzell to build a new one.

Clarence

[jaylw314]

When I saw this thread pop up again, I thought "noooooooooo!"

I switched from the factory Macauley to the 2-blade scimitar Hartzell.  The Hartzell is about 12 lbs heavier IIRC.  Others have said it's smoother, but to me it feels a little buzzier, even though the dynamic balancer said 0.025 ips beforehand (and 0.012 ips after). 

I can't say I notice ANY performance difference, but it looks a little cooler standing still.

[jcovington]

10 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

When I saw this thread pop up again, I thought "noooooooooo!"

I switched from the factory Macauley to the 2-blade scimitar Hartzell.  The Hartzell is about 12 lbs heavier IIRC.  Others have said it's smoother, but to me it feels a little buzzier, even though the dynamic balancer said 0.025 ips beforehand (and 0.012 ips after). 

I can't say I notice ANY performance difference, but it looks a little cooler standing still.

Yeah, I am with you on the opening the thread again. I don't understand a prop requiring servicing four times in three years. It has been worked on by two different shops and yet still has a problem. When I was talking to Joey on Sunday night my wife was listening in. The conversation went something like this:

Joey: "There are several options. We can get the prop resealed again". Wife: "Buy a new prop".

Joey: "We can find a new hub and reuse the blades". Wife: "Buy a new prop".

Joey: "We can buy a new prop.". Wife: "Buy a new prop".

So I am shopping for a new prop .

Right now I am not seeing a compelling reason to pick the Hartzell. The 10 or 12 additional pounds seems like a real minus. I plan to look at the W&B this weekend and call Joey with my decision on Monday.

Jim

[jaylw314]

4 hours ago, jcovington said:

Yeah, I am with you on the opening the thread again. I don't understand a prop requiring servicing four times in three years. It has been worked on by two different shops and yet still has a problem. When I was talking to Joey on Sunday night my wife was listening in. The conversation went something like this:

Joey: "There are several options. We can get the prop resealed again". Wife: "Buy a new prop".

Joey: "We can find a new hub and reuse the blades". Wife: "Buy a new prop".

Joey: "We can buy a new prop.". Wife: "Buy a new prop".

So I am shopping for a new prop .

Right now I am not seeing a compelling reason to pick the Hartzell. The 10 or 12 additional pounds seems like a real minus. I plan to look at the W&B this weekend and call Joey with my decision on Monday.

Jim

The Hartzell ran about $1000 cheaper, that's a pretty good reason?  They also have hub that can be regreased, where you just have to cross your fingers with the Macauley.  Also, I recall @Cody Stallings said he liked the Hartzell's better...

If you want, I can dig out some of the price quotes I got from a couple years ago...

Edit: Oh, I already posted that info previously on this thread

[jcovington]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

The Hartzell ran about $1000 cheaper, that's a pretty good reason?  They also have hub that can be regreased, where you just have to cross your fingers with the Macauley.  Also, I recall @Cody Stallings said he liked the Hartzell's better...

If you want, I can dig out some of the price quotes I got from a couple years ago...

Edit: Oh, I already posted that info previously on this thread

Interesting on the prices. The numbers Joey gave me yesterday the Hartzell was $500 more than the McCauley. I'll get him to confirm the numbers, I might have misunderstood. 

I like the idea of a hub that can be regreased. I wasn't aware of that feature. 

Joey seemed to like the Hartzell better. Sounds like I need some more clarification from him. 

Jim

[jetdriven]

All props with grease fittings do is encourage shops to put 3 pumps in every annual, which herniates the seals.  The grease doesn’t go anywhere.  I see no advantage. 

[Cody Stallings]

[RLCarter]

7 hours ago, jetdriven said:

All props with grease fittings do is encourage shops to put 3 pumps in every annual, which herniates the seals.  The grease doesn’t go anywhere.  I see no advantage. 

Thought you removed one Zerk and filled from the other on each blade so you don't push it past the seal