Traffic Display on GNS430W with Dual G5 and GTX-345

[glenv6]

Hi MooneySpace!

I recently had dual Garmin G5s installed in my J along with a Garmin GTX-345 Transponder/ADS-B, w/o built-in GPS.  I had an existing GNS-430W which will remain in the panel for now.  I also have an existing STEC-30 AP with Alt Hold, which now uses the G5s for roll steer, and therein lies the problem.  My installer tells me that the Garmin STCs (I'm not sure which one(s), but I think it's for the G5) do not yet support the combination of G5-430W providing roll steer to the AP along with Traffic displayed to the 430W from the 345.  

I know this equipment can be wired to provide roll steer and traffic streamed to the 430W from the 345 - it was wired that way before the installer found out Garmin's paperwork didn't support it.  So, the limitation appears to be with Garmin's paperwork.  My installer has talked to Garmin and they tell him they will be issuing revised paperwork to support this configuration, but they haven't said when.

Is anyone familiar with this issue?  Any insight or knowledge into Garmin's timing on revising their paperwork is appreciated.

Adding an image of my new panel....

Edited November 28, 2018 by glenv6
Added panel image.

[Stanton R]

The current G5 STC requires you use both of the 430W arinc 429 inputs for the G5, so you don't have one for the GTX 345. Garmin has added a 429 protocol on the 430W (G5) that allows the G5 to only use one of the 430W 429 ports, which works fine, it just hasn't been changed on the G5 STC approval.

[MIm20c]

You might want to add a Garmin 660 to the panel. It makes a great traffic screen and weather display. Nice job on the panel. 

[OR75]

1 hour ago, Stanton R said:

The current G5 STC requires you use both of the 430W arinc 429 inputs for the G5, so you don't have one for the GTX 345. Garmin has added a 429 protocol on the 430W (G5) that allows the G5 to only use one of the 430W 429 ports, which works fine, it just hasn't been changed on the G5 STC approval.

you need to check the software version you have in the GNS 430W.  An update (i think it was v. 5.4) allowed the use of only one Arinc 429 to drive the A/P and leave the other one for traffic

Unfortunately the Garmin install manual has not been updated to make that clear that with that software version you only need 1 Arinc 429 port

There is Service Bulletin for the software upgrade that clarifies that but I wish it was included in the updated and made clear in the Install Manual (I have a copy of the SB)

[Diesel 10]

Another work around is to have traffic on Garmin Pilot (and perhaps other apps?) on a tablet. The GTX345 can connect to the tablet via Bluetooth and works well.  I know its not the installed solution you are after though.

[glenv6]

5 hours ago, Stanton R said:

The current G5 STC requires you use both of the 430W arinc 429 inputs for the G5, so you don't have one for the GTX 345. Garmin has added a 429 protocol on the 430W (G5) that allows the G5 to only use one of the 430W 429 ports, which works fine, it just hasn't been changed on the G5 STC approval.

Stanton R - That's it, thank you!  So a change to the G5 STC is what anyone with this configuration is waiting for.  I wonder how long wait might be for that revision....

[glenv6]

5 hours ago, MIm20c said:

You might want to add a Garmin 660 to the panel. It makes a great traffic screen and weather display. Nice job on the panel. 

Thanks!  I have ForeFlight on my iPad, so I have the external screen covered.  I really just want this panel mount stuff to integrate the way it is supposed to.

[glenv6]

3 hours ago, OR75 said:

you need to check the software version you have in the GNS 430W.  An update (i think it was v. 5.4) allowed the use of only one Arinc 429 to drive the A/P and leave the other one for traffic

Unfortunately the Garmin install manual has not been updated to make that clear that with that software version you only need 1 Arinc 429 port

There is Service Bulletin for the software upgrade that clarifies that but I wish it was included in the updated and made clear in the Install Manual (I have a copy of the SB)

Yes, I have the correct software upgrade.  I'm just waiting for Garmin to update the G5 STC so it's legal to display the data.

[glenv6]

1 hour ago, Diesel 10 said:

Another work around is to have traffic on Garmin Pilot (and perhaps other apps?) on a tablet. The GTX345 can connect to the tablet via Bluetooth and works well.  I know its not the installed solution you are after though.

Yes, I do have that covered.  I'm really looking for the full integration as promised by Garmin.

[OR75]

Tell your shop to refer to Garmin SB 1762 Rev A

it clearly states that dual ARINC 429 inputs to the GNS from the G5 are no longer necessary 

 

[glenv6]

11 hours ago, OR75 said:

Tell your shop to refer to Garmin SB 1762 Rev A

it clearly states that dual ARINC 429 inputs to the GNS from the G5 are no longer necessary 

 

Thanks, I just asked and they are aware.  The shop referred me to the "Certification Authorization" section of SB 1762 Rev A, which says, "TSO Authorization does not provide installation airworthiness approval.  Separate installation airworthiness approval is required for type certified aircraft.  Notification of of revision to Garmin's STC(s) will be provided under a separate service bulletin."  My shop will wire it correctly once the STC is updated.

[Ragsf15e]

Interesting, seems to be shop interpretation.  I have exactly the same setup (just getting the G5s) and my shop said it is good now.... 

[glenv6]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

Interesting, seems to be shop interpretation.  I have exactly the same setup (just getting the G5s) and my shop said it is good now.... 

Well, that is interesting.  The current STC does require both of the arinc 429 inputs on the 430W for the G5.  The current STC does not recognize the software update on the 430W, so it doesn’t leave a port for the GTX 345.  And this SB clearly states that it does not provide airworthiness approval for certified aircraft. Is your shop going for a field approval?

[Ragsf15e]

I’m scheduled for beginning January install, I’ll ask about it.  I knew of the limitation vaguely and asked when I first talked to them, but they insisted it had been resolved...

Maybe they were just going to disconnect my GTX345 from the 430W as well?  If that’s the “solution “, we’re gonna have problems...

Edited December 1, 2018 by Ragsf15e

[glenv6]

35 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I’m scheduled for beginning January install, I’ll ask about it.  I knew of the limitation vaguely and asked when I first talked to them, but they insisted it had been resolved...

Maybe they were just going to disconnect my GTX345 from the 430W as well?  If that’s the “solution “, we’re gonna have problems...

Oh, we have problems....  I don't like that "solution" either!  Somebody here PMed the name and email address of a Garmin rep shortly after I posted.  I sent him an email but haven't heard back yet. 

[OR75]

The STC won't change ... The Install manual and maintenance manuals will 

the STC does not specify the peculiar aspects of an install 

the shop should refer to the latest install manual and SBs for the installation 

[glenv6]

6 hours ago, OR75 said:

The STC won't change ... The Install manual and maintenance manuals will 

the STC does not specify the peculiar aspects of an install 

the shop should refer to the latest install manual and SBs for the installation 

Then are we waiting for Garmin to issue a new SB rather than an update to the STC?  Or are you saying SB 1762 Rev A already covers this and nothing more should be forthcoming from Garmin.  From SB 1762 Rev A: "Notification of revision to Garmin's STC(s) will be provided under a separate service bulletin."

[OR75]

5 hours ago, glenv6 said:

Then are we waiting for Garmin to issue a new SB rather than an update to the STC?  Or are you saying SB 1762 Rev A already covers this and nothing more should be forthcoming from Garmin.  From SB 1762 Rev A: "Notification of revision to Garmin's STC(s) will be provided under a separate service bulletin."

My opinion is that the SB already covers this. However, what the shop should do as part of their job is to get clarification from Garmin. I am assuming they are a Garmin service center 

[glenv6]

9 hours ago, OR75 said:

My opinion is that the SB already covers this. However, what the shop should do as part of their job is to get clarification from Garmin. I am assuming they are a Garmin service center 

Which they did.  And we wait.....

[glenv6]

Here’s the response I received from Garmin:

“Unfortunately this is correct as the current G5 to GNS 430W interface requires both of the 429 ports to be used. We do have a software update for the GNS units that will allow one port setting however this has not been STC approved as of yet and hopefully will be approved in early 2019 timeframe barring any problems with the cert and scheduling.”

[LANCECASPER]

As has been mentioned before, an Aera 660 on the far right side with an airgizmo dock and horizontal adaptor would give you a lot of bang for the buck.

 

[glenv6]

ForeFlight is pretty good too!

[toto]

My ears perked up at this thread, because I have a plane in the shop right now getting a dual-G5/GFC500 install.  This is going into a panel that already has a 430W and a GTX345, and (well, as of last week, anyway) has traffic displaying from the 345 on the 430.

So am I understanding that, given the current state of the G5 STC, I'll lose the traffic display on the 430 once the G5s are in?

(Note this is in a Piper - I'm still anxiously waiting to see whether Garmin gets a J model STC for the GFC500 before Dynon gets one for the HDX system...)

[glenv6]

17 hours ago, toto said:

My ears perked up at this thread, because I have a plane in the shop right now getting a dual-G5/GFC500 install.  This is going into a panel that already has a 430W and a GTX345, and (well, as of last week, anyway) has traffic displaying from the 345 on the 430.

So am I understanding that, given the current state of the G5 STC, I'll lose the traffic display on the 430 once the G5s are in?

(Note this is in a Piper - I'm still anxiously waiting to see whether Garmin gets a J model STC for the GFC500 before Dynon gets one for the HDX system...)

Toto - yes.  You cannot also display traffic on the 430W because the G5 currently needs both ARINC 429 ports on the 430W.

Note:  The latest software update on the 430W enables a G5 protocol on only one 429 port, freeing up the other port for the Traffic interface from the GTX345.  However, the STC has not yet been approved to support this configuration.

UPDATE:  The GFC500 has built-in roll steer, so you might not need both ports.  Check the installation guide or with your shop.

[Bill_Pyles]

I have a 530W and GTX345 out/in and Century 21 AP in my M20J. (I know I will eventually have to upgrade the AP).  I want to get dual G5s. 

1)  Will I get traffic on the 530W or have the same problem described above with the 430W?

2)  Will I still need the vacuum pump for any reason?

Edited December 7, 2018 by Bill_Pyles