Help finding the right 201

[MATTS875]

Thank you, it worked perfect

[jetdriven]

It’s pretty easy,... the bottom basement 201 is around 65,000$ and top of the line is around 120k.   It takes about 90!grand to make the airplane tiptop  from bottom of the barrel. Pick an entry point. 

Edited April 26, 2018 by jetdriven

[MATTS875]

Thank you. I would prefer a turn key 201 with all the updates. I know I will pay good money for one but to me it’s worth it for the right one. I’m finding ones with updated avionics but higher engine times. 

[ArtVandelay]

4 hours ago, MATTS875 said:

Thank you. I would prefer a turn key 201 with all the updates. I know I will pay good money for one but to me it’s worth it for the right one. I’m finding ones with updated avionics but higher engine times. 

Higher engine time (runout) is good if priced accordingly.  Less risk, if engine needs overhauling you lose nothing,  but you could get lucky and go past TBO.

[MATTS875]

From what I am seeing people are not discounting for the high engine time. Have seen a few 201 with 1600-1800 smoh and still wanting 90K

[gsxrpilot]

There are always sellers asking unreasonable numbers as well. But then $90K for a J with a runout engine might not be too far off depending on the rest of the plane and how it's equipped.

There I an M20B for sale on my home field. It's been sitting for years with an occasional start up and run... usually at annual. The owner is now "serious" about selling. Asking $40K.

[Oldguy]

46 minutes ago, MATTS875 said:

From what I am seeing people are not discounting for the high engine time. Have seen a few 201 with 1600-1800 smoh and still wanting 90K

At $15.00/hr, with 200-400 hours until TBO and the engine being the only fault in the plane, the cost looks about right. A $120,000 J is not unreasonable given current avionics, paint, and interior.

[mike_elliott]

@Rmag I believe has a beauty he may sell. Dont expect to get this for pocket lint.

[smccray]

3 hours ago, MATTS875 said:

From what I am seeing people are not discounting for the high engine time. Have seen a few 201 with 1600-1800 smoh and still wanting 90K

What did the sellers say when you made an offer on the plane?  If you're ready to commit to a particular airplane, pull the trigger.  Who cares what a seller says.  I had someone throw out a number on my airplane- it was the whole "I don't want to offend you but..." dance.  I wasn't offended- I was offered a lot of $.  My response was that his price might be good but I've barely started the advertising process and that his number may be right, but after the plane has been on the market for 30 days I would come down on my price.  Hell- I don't even have recent stuff put together on my plane yet.  Work/family getting in the way...  No big deal- I'll be more concerned in about 6 weeks when a new plane comes home. 

It's very unlikely that you're going to find the perfect fit for what you're looking for.  We're all particular people that want different things in an airplane.  The goal is to find a plane that's pretty close to what you're looking for to minimize the cost to get it to what you want it to be.  If you're not making an offer on an airplane because it's not close enough to your desired specs- no big deal.  Committing to an airplane and making an offer is hard.  If you want to shop- fantastic- I've been shopping airplanes for years because it's fun.  Maybe the perfect plane will come along at some point, you'll offer $2K below asking and get a bargain.  It may take 3 years to find the plane, and that's fine if that's what you want to do.  If you want to buy a plane in the next 90 days, that's a little more limiting- wait and see what comes on the market, or pull the trigger on what you see.  If you start making offers and sellers keep saying no, either all the sellers are unreasonable, or your price expectation is unreasonable.  Then you have to figure out if you want to do- increase your budget, wait for sellers to come down in price, or wait for another plane to be listed.

Me- I spent a little more than I wanted to on a new plane.  Why?  I got tired of talking about doing something and decided to do it.  I can estimate the total cash outlay on aviation over the next 10 years.  The increase in the purchase price is a rounding error.  Seller is taking less than he really wanted for the plane.  Probably means we're in a reasonable spot.

 

[gsxrpilot]

39 minutes ago, smccray said:

I can estimate the total cash outlay on aviation over the next 10 years.  The increase in the purchase price is a rounding error.  

Yes. And there are a couple of good points wrapped up here. 

First - don't break the bank on the initial CapEx because the OpEx in the first year might be shocking.

Second - don't put yourself in a position where you realize the $10K you saved buying the cheaper one, just cost you $30K in unexpected expenses.

[ArtVandelay]

Prices are definitely higher now then they were back in 2013 when I was looking. Less selection as well.

[MATTS875]

2 hours ago, smccray said:

What did the sellers say when you made an offer on the plane?  If you're ready to commit to a particular airplane, pull the trigger.  Who cares what a seller says.  I had someone throw out a number on my airplane- it was the whole "I don't want to offend you but..." dance.  I wasn't offended- I was offered a lot of $.  My response was that his price might be good but I've barely started the advertising process and that his number may be right, but after the plane has been on the market for 30 days I would come down on my price.  Hell- I don't even have recent stuff put together on my plane yet.  Work/family getting in the way...  No big deal- I'll be more concerned in about 6 weeks when a new plane comes home. 

It's very unlikely that you're going to find the perfect fit for what you're looking for.  We're all particular people that want different things in an airplane.  The goal is to find a plane that's pretty close to what you're looking for to minimize the cost to get it to what you want it to be.  If you're not making an offer on an airplane because it's not close enough to your desired specs- no big deal.  Committing to an airplane and making an offer is hard.  If you want to shop- fantastic- I've been shopping airplanes for years because it's fun.  Maybe the perfect plane will come along at some point, you'll offer $2K below asking and get a bargain.  It may take 3 years to find the plane, and that's fine if that's what you want to do.  If you want to buy a plane in the next 90 days, that's a little more limiting- wait and see what comes on the market, or pull the trigger on what you see.  If you start making offers and sellers keep saying no, either all the sellers are unreasonable, or your price expectation is unreasonable.  Then you have to figure out if you want to do- increase your budget, wait for sellers to come down in price, or wait for another plane to be listed.

Me- I spent a little more than I wanted to on a new plane.  Why?  I got tired of talking about doing something and decided to do it.  I can estimate the total cash outlay on aviation over the next 10 years.  The increase in the purchase price is a rounding error.  Seller is taking less than he really wanted for the plane.  Probably means we're in a reasonable spot.

 

Thanks for the advice. I have not made any offers yet, just noticing the prices for the higher time planes.  It will probably get down to find the airplane that I really want and negotiate the best deal I can.

[MATTS875]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

Yes. And there are a couple of good points wrapped up here. 

First - don't break the bank on the initial CapEx because the OpEx in the first year might be shocking.

Second - don't put yourself in a position where you realize the $10K you saved buying the cheaper one, just cost you $30K in unexpected expenses.

I agree.  I do like the updated avionics, but the things that mean  a lot to me are fuel leak issues or lack of, engine  times, and a good auto pilot.

[Steve Dawson]

This maybe a little prejudiced since I have my J for sale and the engine is technically over TBO but this is why I'd consider buying an aircraft with a high time engine.

How was the engine treated and what has been done to it over the last few hundred hours? ie: Has it been dependable and needed little work? - If the plane you're looking at hasn't had any major work done to it, has had regular oil changes, has good compressions and they can prove it's a good engine through frequent oil analysis and maybe a savvy analysis that it's been dependable you'll most likely get a few more years/hundreds of hours of trouble free flying for very little cost. Are the avionics up to date (maybe some bells and whistles included) and will you have to do any upgrades in the near future. (more money you'll save because you won't have to do updates) How much work will you have to do for the rest plane such as the interior or brakes or tires? 

Mine had a complete IRAN done on the cases 970 hours ago by PenYan including bearings, cam, lifters, pistons and rod bolts. As for the cylinders they were rebuilt 660 hours ago. I'd keep mine but I want to go turbo!

 

[000]

Matt....I just listed this nicely-equipped '78 201 with a Garmin 430W, Aspen 1000 PFD, King KX-155 N/C, JPI Fuel & Engine Scanners, ADS-B READY, Speed Mods & More:

http://www.aso.com/listings/spec/ViewAd.aspx?id=174352

Call me at 321-210-0456 if interested....www.greatscotsaircraft.com

 

 

[MATTS875]

ok. I think I have narrowed down the search. The mooney I am leaning toward is the 86 J that all american aircraft has listed. Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Hopefully if we can get together on numbers, i would like to get a thorough prebuy done maybe Don Maxwell. This plane is not that far from his business.  

[carusoam]

The Mooney Tri-fecta...

1) Jimmy and David do a great job of describing what they are selling.  Fewer surprises this way...

2) DMax has the best reputation for doing a great PPI.  Part of the process is the review with the future owner of what he saw...   no surprises after that...

3) Want a recomendation for a good Transition Trainer?  (BC)

This was the team I used when buying the O...

Best regards,

-a-

[MATTS875]

Yes, i need all the help i can get.  I have to get my updated medical. I am starting all over . I looked at my flying log book and it has been 6 years since i have flown. Time goes by quick

[carusoam]

Get on that medical immediately....

Nothing ruins progress like not having all the paperwork...

There are a few threads around here and AOPA for the latest in Medicals...

Getting back in the saddle can be a blast...

Ask Questions often.  Somebody at MS will know the answer, or know where to go to get one...

Best regards,

-a-

[MATTS875]

Thanks. Getting medical done next week and getting the hanger tomorrow. One just became available and do nt want to miss out. The hangers here are great deals and go fast

[gsxrpilot]

Good plan on grabbing the hangar now if available. I paid two months of hangar rent before I had a plane to put in it. 

David and Jimmy price their Mooney's to sell and they sell a lot of them. So I wouldn't be expecting to move the number much if at all. This one looks to be priced right and will sell quick. I wouldn't wait around. Get a contract on it and a slot scheduled with DMax.

 

[MATTS875]

ok, I have come to the conclusion that I am going to have to step up the budget to get a nice plane like I want. I do not have a certain budget in mind as long as the plane is what I am wanting. From what I am seeing by the time I buy one and do all the upgrades I am better off buying one that's ready to go.  Just got the itch to start flying again, actually never lost the itch

[Oldguy]

Don't worry - you will still have the opportunity to spend money even if you get one as close as you can to exactly what you want. 

[MATTS875]

I agree, I have used mooney flyer for values and there are things I do not understand, like if you add century or stec autolpilot if decreases the value and very little difference in adding for a 530 vs gtn750.  I guess everything is a learning curve

[carusoam]

Matt,

the way the value tool works... can be a bit quirky. (Its been a while since I looked)

Some baseline equipment is expected to be there already and is priced in already.  (In the model, not in the plane)

Some equipment adds to the function of the plane...  

GPS.... WAAS approach capability would be better than non-waas only... both are better than not being approach certified....

APs... Some climb at settable rates and hold altitude automatically when they get there...   Another skill some have is the ability to intercept approaches from a variety of angles... including above and below a glideslope....

At the higher end there are flight directors with all the variety of options above....

Combined with GPSS, a high end AP can follow an entire flight plan after T/O to About Final approach....

Some power management will still be required...  

Best regards,

-a-