Bad day for Mooney’s on Spruce Creek

[eman1200]

Looks like he’s making the dreaded phone call....

[jetdriven]

2 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Airbags or jacks under the wings to lift and shore it progressively, lift straps at engine mount right at the firewall.  Nothing around or under the fuselage sheet metal.

Clarence

There are two hoist point placards on the fuselage. One aft Of the wing and one forward. I would gues that’s for straps .

[Guest]

I’ve never seen a fuselage with noted hoist points.  The last note in jacking procedures from the Ovation manual has a caution about leaving a tail stand under the plane leading to excessive loads, I think lifting the fuselage with straps would result in damage.

Clarence

Edited March 11, 2018 by M20Doc

[jetdriven]

Yes I think you’re right. There is a hoist point placard behind the right cowl flap and under the wings but not aft of the wings on the fuselage on the M20R. The J has the placard  only under the wings. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by jetdriven

[aviatoreb]

3 hours ago, Yooper Rocketman said:

I’m not sure I’ve ever heard that version?  The one I noted was there’s those that have and those that have not YET.   I believe that implies those that haven’t better realize the vulnerability we have to joining the other club!

At my home base a 20,000-25,000 hour ATP / Commercial pilot just had his first gear up on a twin Cessna, not too many hours away from retirement.  I’ve flown with him and he as a VERY GOOD pilot.  

Tom

About 10 years ago, at a nearby airport, the local DPE with about 15k hours and a copilot ATP with a lot of hours did a gear up in a small piston twin.  That was a bummer.  I think the DPE was doing a check ride.  Nonetheless.  Bummer.

[tigers2007]

I do the GUMPS every time as it was drilled into my head when I was 15-yr old student pilot. CFI wouldn’t let me land if I didn’t call out the GUMPS when abeam the numbers. Do Mooney gear ups happen weekly?


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[JohnB]

Hasn't happened to yet? I hope I stay in the never had a gear up landing club. There's got to be several pilots that have had long retractable flying careers with never having a gear up landing.  But I see it does happen with some regularity in pilots being distracted so I'm going to be humbly cautious! There was a pilot who was flying a pilots n paws flight on the same day I was flying one who near the end of his flight, the dog in the baggage compartment had somehow got the baggage door open and was trying to jump out in flight! Pilot of course was very harrowed, and somehow managed to get the dog back into the seat. But in all of the worrying about the dog jumping out, he forgot to put his gear down and landed gear up.

5 hours ago, nels said:

 That gear up is just another reason I’m trying not to join that club. That’s why I just installed an AV17 voice annunciator to let me know the gear needs to go down. 

Just looked into this one.. verbal warnings several critical items.. may have to get one of these. Thanks for the info!

 

John

[kortopates]

12 minutes ago, JohnB said:

Hasn't happened to yet? I hope I stay in the never had a gear up landing club. There's got to be several pilots that have had long retractable flying careers with never having a gear up landing.  But I see it does happen with some regularity in pilots being distracted so I'm going to be humbly cautious! There was a pilot who was flying a pilots n paws flight on the same day I was flying one who near the end of his flight, the dog in the baggage compartment had somehow got the baggage door open and was trying to jump out in flight! Pilot of course was very harrowed, and somehow managed to get the dog back into the seat. But in all of the worrying about the dog jumping out, he forgot to put his gear down and landed gear up.

Just looked into this one.. verbal warnings several critical items.. may have to get one of these. Thanks for the info!

 

John

If you're going to consider one of these very helpful devices, be sure to check out the P2 Audio Advisory System http://www.p2inc.com/audioadvisory.asp 

I've always considered it the best unit available for the purpose.  .

[kortopates]

1 hour ago, tigers2007 said:

Mooney gear ups happen weekly?

Its often multiple per week, to both electric gear and the seemingly invincible J bar Mooney's in about equal numbers. In fairness, in saying more than weekly, I am including all belly landing whether its a know gear up or a claimed gear failure because its human nature for some pilots to initially report their incident as a gear failure fearing insurance retribution or the like; making it impossible to know with certainty.

Before today's (and their could be more than we don't know about this weekend yet) the most recent reported Mooney gear up was a C model on Feb 26 in TX.

[neilpilot]

Years ago my former boss landed his Commander 500S gear up.  Thought the gear horn was the stall warning. Only saving grace was that the 500S props are high enough to avoid ground contact during a gear up.

[ArtVandelay]

I miss the days you could do something stupid and not worry about it showing up on the internet for all to see.

[Guest]

I’d bet that most gear up landing are the result of grey matter failure than airplane failure.  In my experience pilots are the worst passengers, never knowing when to shut up and let the pilot fly.  Not surprising that airlines developed a steril cockpit rule.

Clarence

[PTK]

I find it inconceivable to have such a high incidence of gear up landings among our ranks. Do we have better things we’d rather be doing than see to those few items required in setting up for landing? To me gear down goes hand in hand with speed control on the approach. Do folks forget to slow down too? 

[MIm20c]

36 minutes ago, PTK said:

I find it inconceivable to have such a high incidence of gear up landings among our ranks. Do we have better things we’d rather be doing than see to those few items required in setting up for landing? To me gear down goes hand in hand with speed control on the approach. Do folks forget to slow down to? 

Not disagreeing but the R with speed brakes and a three blade prop can come down like a rock compared to a 2 blade J or short body. 

[Marauder]

I’d bet that most gear up landing are the result of grey matter failure than airplane failure.  In my experience pilots are the worst passengers, never knowing when to shut up and let the pilot fly.  Not surprising that airlines developed a steril cockpit rule.
Clarence

The worst violator of my sterile cockpit rule has been instructors giving me an IPC. Always telling them to shut up.


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[aviatoreb]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

I find it inconceivable to have such a high incidence of gear up landings among our ranks. Do we have better things we’d rather be doing than see to those few items required in setting up for landing? To me gear down goes hand in hand with speed control on the approach. Do folks forget to slow down to? 

That may well be true.  And I have a hard time imagining it.  And yet it keeps happening.  Therefore I choose to believe it is not inconceivable and could happen to me, knock on wood, and I must humbly work to keep my imperfect self from making this and many other mistakes by deliberate attentiveness.

[gsxrpilot]

15 hours ago, DAVIDWH said:

G-- Gear down

U--Undercarriage down

M-- That mf gear sure as hell better be down

P--I am going to be so P. O. if that mf gear is not down

I like this version of GUMP. As I figure, Gear is the only item on the before landing checklist that is absolutely necessary.

G - Gas, this is done before I get anywhere near the pattern. I like to be on the appropriate landing tank at the top of descent. 
U - Undercarriage, this the most important.
M - Mixture, this has already been adjusted during the descent, and if not full rich, a go around involves verifying all three knobs are full forward.
P - Prop, again, only required for a go around and on the go will verify all three knobs full forward.
S - Seat belts, should still be in place from the take off, but not critical for landing.

Accordingly, my before landing check list has only one item on it. GEAR.

[Marauder]

I like this version of GUMP. As I figure, Gear is the only item on the before landing checklist that is absolutely necessary.
G - Gas, this is done before I get anywhere near the pattern. I like to be on the appropriate landing tank at the top of descent. 
U - Undercarriage, this the most important.
M - Mixture, this has already been adjusted during the descent, and if not full rich, a go around involves verifying all three knobs are full forward.
P - Prop, again, only required for a go around and on the go will verify all three knobs full forward.
S - Seat belts, should still be in place from the take off, but not critical for landing.
Accordingly, my before landing check list has only one item on it. GEAR.

I don’t use “GUMPS”. I use “BUMPS” with the “B” used for Boost pump.


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[Marauder]

Another thing I do is use the military “gear down and locked” callout on short final. At least it will be recorded that I intended to put the gear down.


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[gsxrpilot]

4 minutes ago, Marauder said:

I don’t use “GUMPS”. I use “BUMPS” with the “B” used for Boost pump.

 

We don't use a boost pump on the 252's. But I never used it on landing when I had a C either. Maybe that was slack, but just figured I'd get it on the rare occasion that a go around was required. And if I didn't get it on the go around, there was still a pretty small chance that it would be required.

[amillet]

2 hours ago, PTK said:

I find it inconceivable to have such a high incidence of gear up landings among our ranks. Do we have better things we’d rather be doing than see to those few items required in setting up for landing? To me gear down goes hand in hand with speed control on the approach. Do folks forget to slow down to? 

On the few occasions I have forgotten the gear, the inability to slow down on final has been a reminder.

[Hank]

2 hours ago, PTK said:

I find it inconceivable to have such a high incidence of gear up landings among our ranks. Do we have better things we’d rather be doing than see to those few items required in setting up for landing? To me gear down goes hand in hand with speed control on the approach. Do folks forget to slow down to? 

Leaving the gear tucked away in my C, even with the 3 blade Hartzell out front, leaves me noticeably high and/or fast. I've done it on purpose flying along a grass field before landing, had trouble getting down even to treetop level.

The same holds true when IFR. Going to the Summit in 2016, I was in the clouds most of the way down, and started on that long, curving GPS spproach over the (unseen) bay. With little recent actual time, my wife and I looming forward to the weekend, and a non-standard approach, I was struggling with both speed and altitude being high. When I broke out at about 1000', I realized the gear was still up . . . Gear down, throttle back, flaps to full down, fingers crossed for the descent and the landing was uneventful. There's no way I would have reached the runway with the gear still up.

[mike_elliott]

2 hours ago, Marauder said:

 

The worst violator of my sterile cockpit rule has been instructors giving me an IPC. Always telling them to shut up.


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simple rule to keep the instructor shut up during an IPC on approach....keep the needles centered. (and dont forget to put the gear down)

[Marauder]

simple rule to keep the instructor shut up during an IPC on approach....keep the needles centered. (and dont forget to put the gear down)

I wish that is what they were talking about. It is usually a bunch of questions on how things work on my panel or them trying to figure out how to fail a triple redundant panel.


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[Mooneymite]

39 minutes ago, Hank said:

There's no way I would have reached the runway with the gear still up.

But lots of pilots have proven it can be done....