Family pressures?

[tony]

21 hours ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I’ll stay out of the fray on this one with regard to obtaining flying experience as it has all been said here already.  I will say this, though.  Meddling parents literally ruined my first marriage. There were no kids of the marriage, though, and I ended up trading up on my second, current, and final wife, so it all worked out ok in the end, I suppose. It caused a lot of pain in the process, though. 

Jim

Right on Jim.  Thats what I thought this thread was about.  To bad, like most topics around here, morphed into bitch session.  

Edited November 28, 2017 by tony

[Alan Fox]

12 hours ago, NJMac said:

I appreciate the explanation for the contentiousness.

Probably going to ruffle a few feathers with this statement. I don't necessarily see death as the worst thing that can happen. If we're Christians, isn't it the beginning of something better? And if I have to go, I'd really like to be doing something that I enjoy at the time.

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wonderful attitude , reminds me of my friend john , lost an engine in a warrior over the Hudson corridor , the p.i.c.  started praying , instead of flying ,  john had to fly the plane , make the radio calls , and get the p.i.c.  out of the plane ,   gliding into the river in February , wondering whether you are going to survive the impact , drown , or die from hypothermia..........   if that's what you love doing , do us all a favor and find a new hobby ,   and how about the other people in the plane , or on the ground ........  maybe they aren't 'christians'......   i'm not a Christian , and that statement offends me tremendously.......  every time you get in that aircraft , you are responsible for your life , your passengers lives , and anybody on the ground you could hit.........  when planning , and flying , heaven is not an acceptable option ,  or maybe someone here can enlighten me......

 

[Skates97]

11 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

wonderful attitude , reminds me of my friend john , lost an engine in a warrior over the Hudson corridor , the p.i.c.  started praying , instead of flying ,  john had to fly the plane , make the radio calls , and get the p.i.c.  out of the plane ,   gliding into the river in February , wondering whether you are going to survive the impact , drown , or die from hypothermia..........   if that's what you love doing , do us all a favor and find a new hobby ,   and how about the other people in the plane , or on the ground ........  maybe they aren't 'christians'......   i'm not a Christian , and that statement offends me tremendously.......  every time you get in that aircraft , you are responsible for your life , your passengers lives , and anybody on the ground you could hit.........  when planning , and flying , heaven is not an acceptable option ,  or maybe someone here can enlighten me......

 

I am a Christian and would consider myself very religious, however I like you am bothered by that statement. There are much worse things than dying in a plane crash. I went to take my plane for a post maintenance flight and my wife asked if I was taking my son along. I told her no, if something went wrong and I had to put it down somewhere I couldn't imagine living with myself if something happened to him. 

That of course is a different situation than the OP's situation of taking a normal flight. I will second what Jim said above about meddling parents, do not underestimate the impact they can have on a relationship. Always remember that your wife was their daughter for far longer than she has been your wife. Take her flying with you, enjoy the flights, be very careful and never compromise your personal minimums, and try to be more tactful in your approach with the in laws. 

Edited November 28, 2017 by Skates97

[Alan Fox]

2 minutes ago, Skates97 said:

I am a Christian and would consider myself very religious, however I like you am bothered by that statement. There are much worse things than dying in a plane crash. I went to take my plane for a post maintenance flight and my wife asked if I was taking my son along. I told her no, if something went wrong and I had to put it down somewhere I couldn't imagine living with myself if something happened to him. 

That of course is a different situation than the OP's situation of taking a normal flight. I will second what Jim said above about meddling parents, do not underestimate the impact they can have on a relationship. Always remember that your wife was their daughter for far longer than she has been your wife. Take her flying with you, enjoy the flights, be very careful and never compromise your personal minimums, and try to be more tactful in your approach with the in laws. 

my most stressful flights are either with my wife and child , or with a married couple that have children ,   that is when it hits you like a hammer , the awesome responsibility you accept.........  again , I have no idea whatsoever the skill and capabilities of the post author , but whether we agree or not , others fears , have to be considered ,  

[gsxrpilot]

Flying is a dangerous activity and we'd all be safer if we sold our airplanes and stayed on the ground.  But for those of us afflicted with this sickness, there is no cure, and the only way to maintain sanity is to fly. 

I'm a pilot and a pilot's gotta fly. No one ever has to go with me, but I certainly do my best to keep myself and my passengers alive and in good health. 

I've noticed something from flying with quite a large number of other pilots. And I wonder if others notice this as well. There seem to be some pilots that just seem to always be nervous in the cockpit and there are other pilots that seem to be very relaxed all the time. This doesn't seem to relate to hours, ratings, profession, or any other category I can think of. I recently gave a gentleman a ride to visit his plane at the paint shop. He is selling and stepping up to a TBM, so naturally I was willing to trade a ride in my Mooney for a ride some day in his new TBM. We flew about a 200+ nm round trip, all IFR, with plenty of IMC. We also got several reroutes and had to deal with some convection and deviations on the return. But all in all I thought it was a very uneventful flight. As I was on short final he said, "you're a very relaxed pilot." I was very flattered and thanked him for the compliment. 

Curious if anyone else has noticed nervous vs. relaxed pilots out there? My brother, a SWA Captain, says he sees the same thing with the pilots he flies with.

[Alan Fox]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

Flying is a dangerous activity and we'd all be safer if we sold our airplanes and stayed on the ground.  But for those of us afflicted with this sickness, there is no cure, and the only way to maintain sanity is to fly. 

I'm a pilot and a pilot's gotta fly. No one ever has to go with me, but I certainly do my best to keep myself and my passengers alive and in good health. 

I've noticed something from flying with quite a large number of other pilots. And I wonder if others notice this as well. There seem to be some pilots that just seem to always be nervous in the cockpit and there are other pilots that seem to be very relaxed all the time. This doesn't seem to relate to hours, ratings, profession, or any other category I can think of. I recently gave a gentleman a ride to visit his plane at the paint shop. He is selling and stepping up to a TBM, so naturally I was willing to trade a ride in my Mooney for a ride some day in his new TBM. We flew about a 200+ nm round trip, all IFR, with plenty of IMC. We also got several reroutes and had to deal with some convection and deviations on the return. But all in all I thought it was a very uneventful flight. As I was on short final he said, "you're a very relaxed pilot." I was very flattered and thanked him for the compliment. 

Curious if anyone else has noticed nervous vs. relaxed pilots out there? My brother, a SWA Captain, says he sees the same thing with the pilots he flies with.

not so much nervous , but I have seen a lot of high time pilots who are not  ' fluid ' in the cockpit   ie  they stop think and then act , with very basic flying ,   where I think and act at the same time , like driving a car....maybe different technique ???

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, Alan Fox said:

not so much nervous , but I have seen a lot of high time pilots who are not  ' fluid ' in the cockpit   ie  they stop think and then act , with very basic flying ,   where I think and act at the same time , like driving a car....maybe different technique ???

Yes, that's it. It's almost like they are running through a checklist in their head and always starting with #1.

[NJMac]

How did my words get twisted into me wanting to die and take my pax down too? Hold the horses y'all. Thats not at all my mindset. Ill have to go back and read my posts but this really seems to have gotten out of hand in a hurry. Lets not all jump on the new guy, cool?

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[gsxrpilot]

I last flew my Mooney on the 17th of Oct. I'm sure there are plenty on here who will say I'd better get me a good Mooney specific CFI to go with me before I fly it again. 

[Skates97]

47 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

my most stressful flights are either with my wife and child , or with a married couple that have children ,   that is when it hits you like a hammer , the awesome responsibility you accept.........  again , I have no idea whatsoever the skill and capabilities of the post author , but whether we agree or not , others fears , have to be considered ,  

My wife loves to fly with me, but she understands the risks and has a rule that I don't fly a married couple together if they have young kids. (With grown adult kids is a different story). She said she doesn't want to be responsible for orphaning someone else's kids if something went wrong.

[mooneyspeed]

My most stressful flights are when my kids are with me. Not, though, because their precious little tushes are any more precious than is my own, but rather because they sometimes distract the living crap out of me.  I have never understood the whole “precious cargo” thing. My life is precious justification enough for me to dedicate each and every flight to the interests of safety. I don’t need passengers let alone my own kids for that.  I fly the same no matter who is onboard.
Ok. Rant off. I guess I have been needing to get that off my chest for a while.
Jim

Yeah. It’s your teeth they’d be picking out of thedash


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[201er]

1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Do you guys actually fly differently when you have passengers onboard because you value their lives more than your own?  If so I find that very interesting.  

I Don't think it's so much flying different as choosing which flights to take or not to take passengers on.

Examples of flights not to take passengers on:

Fresh out of maintenance

Practice flights when improficient 

Generally most flights that are a first of anything

 

Reason is that for most of these first of anything flights, you as the pilot have to face the heightened risk in any case. However, your passengers can easily be spared that added risk by going next time when you and or the plane are proven ok for the circumstance. 

For a pilot with say 70 hours, practically every flight is a first of something flight.

The passenger is unqualified to assess and usually not even aware of increased risk scenarios such as these. So it is up to pilot to be able to intervene on the passenger's behalf and remove them from the added risk situation or at minimum give them the info that would help them assess it and make their own decision. 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by 201er

[gitmo234]

To the meddling in-laws discussion: meddling in-laws ended my first marriage. They were enough to derail literally everything, but they werent enough to bring it back. When we were in the death spiral I made it clear what they had done in a very courteous and professional manner. The look changed in their eyes as I saw the mental puzzle pieces coming together. They tried their best to reverse it, even going so far as to lose their cool several times with their daughter about her choice. It didnt work. Suddenly my spouses family became an important factor in selection. 

To the nervous pilot stuff: Not quite what we're getting at but part of the reason I post my screw ups is my own is because of some anxiety type stuff. Sometimes it's no factor. I can fly and it's smooth. A great time. Sometimes even thinking about flying makes my palms sweat. 

The day of my first solo my CFI and I checked the weather and it looked fine. We talked about it, planned it etc. Flew to a towered airport and did some practice patterns. He hopped out and wished me luck and told me to do three. Winds were roughly 2-3 knots down the runway. I took off and noticed some bumps and I was being blown a bit. Landed. Tower cleared me for departure again, suddenly it was hard to control. I was fighting it to stay close to the pattern. Turned final and its clear stuff had changed. I was getting rocked hard. Good chop and a crosswind that required me to crab at a near 45 degree angle. Coming over the runway a gust blew me over the grass. I recovered, but I was being blown harder than it seemed the airplane could keep up. I got it down with a bounce.

Tower cleared me to depart and I respectfully requested to return to the FBO to pick up my CFI, I was going up again. Winds had changed to 15G22 direct crosswind with moderate turbulence. 

CFI said that he was happier that I made that decision than that I had landed successfully. We got in the air to head home and to this day I have never felt turbulence that bad. I literally hit my head on the ceiling a few times. CFI told me "I'd never fly in these conditions...oh by the way, you're landing when we get home". I was still shaking from the solo. I did manage to land on that 2000 foot long and very narrow strip, but that day honestly set me back several months in my training. It was months until I could land very well again and I'd argue it still has some influence on me sometimes.

I've had one sort of similar day, but I spotted it and brought a safety pilot with me.

Edited November 28, 2017 by gitmo234

[Danb]

9 hours ago, Skates97 said:

I am a Christian and would consider myself very religious, however I like you am bothered by that statement. There are much worse things than dying in a plane crash. I went to take my plane for a post maintenance flight and my wife asked if I was taking my son along. I told her no, if something went wrong and I had to put it down somewhere I couldn't imagine living with myself if something happened to him. 

That of course is a different situation than the OP's situation of taking a normal flight. I will second what Jim said above about meddling parents, do not underestimate the impact they can have on a relationship. Always remember that your wife was their daughter for far longer than she has been your wife. Take her flying with you, enjoy the flights, be very careful and never compromise your personal minimums, and try to be more tactful in your approach with the in laws. 

Rich, lots of wisdom in your statement, I couldn't agree more, this thread went down an ominous path, sometimes thread drift isn't all bad. There were many insightful thoughts and statements mentioned. Some responses are easy to ignore.

[Danb]

9 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

Flying is a dangerous activity and we'd all be safer if we sold our airplanes and stayed on the ground

Curious if anyone else has noticed nervous vs. relaxed pilots out there? My brother, a SWA Captain, says he sees the same thing with the pilots he flies with.

Paul I've never considered myself nervous and most of my friends, relatives and associates think I'm or was aggressive. That being said since I've been using a flight stat for O2 and HR per minute it depicts something different. At the start of most tough flights my HR is somewhat elevated diminishing during the flight, once revealed a few years I dramatically increased my flying, I've always had a lot of training. Is that nervousness or what. I went to a cardiologist who is a competent pilot for a huge work up along with yearly visits. This depicted no abnormalities I dumbly consoled  with my AME,after passing, for his insights, his statement were positive. I don't outwardly show nervousness but is it? Most folks I know will jump in the plane with me, I feel well, competent continuing to plan for every outcome I can imagine therefore I can't answer your query re myself. 

I have a friend who appears nervous but is very competent, i would and have put my life in his hands if we consider flying is a death mission. I believe it's evaluating risks   making a determination if I can have a safe outcome post evaluation then make my decision based on the evaluation on my criteria. 

Yep this is thread drift.

[Bob_Belville]

This has morphed into a very self revealing thread. I would think that some of our psychology professionals, @mooneygirl?, could have a field day with what you folks have revealed about yourselves. (I caught up with reading the thread... I don't think I contributed to it until now.) The comments probably say a great deal about your personal experience:

• Nature vs. nurture. Why do some here feel that experience is overrated while others "know" that it is the most important consideration?
• Family dynamics. How do we think we ought to "handle" our spouse's parents? Most comments suggest the pilot does not have much respect for their intelligence.
• Macho factor. Many here acknowledge that flying is risky. Some find that completely acceptable, everybody knows that men need to do some daredevil stuff to be really alive. Others place more importance on mitigating the risk and scuttle any flight when they calculate that the risk it too high.  

(I'm going to have a lot of trouble placing myself on the several continua. I was a lot like Hank in that I started flying a Mooney on cross country flights in 1969 with my wife and young daughter with less than 60 hours TT. Now, with an accumulation  of stories of mechanical failures, questionable pilot decisions and close calls, I might well advise a grandson to do as I say and not as I did. Even with over 2750 hours in Mooneys alone, I still feel a little apprehension driving to the airport for even a short flight. This feeling seems to go away when I get down the pre-start checklist.)   

[PTK]

12 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

...when planning , and flying , heaven is not an acceptable option ,  or maybe someone here can enlighten me......

Tell me you don’t want a dozen virgins or whatever the number may be?! 

[AndyFromCB]

1 hour ago, PTK said:

Tell me you don’t want a dozen virgins or whatever the number may be?! 

It's 72 but results are not typical, quantity and quality may vary depending on stock availability, no rain checks, "virgins" might actually be manufacturer refurbished models.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, PTK said:

Tell me you don’t want a dozen virgins or whatever the number may be?! 

Sadly that is not an option for Christians in Heaven, unless they relaxed the rules on adulatory recently.

Clarence

 

[Danb]

39 minutes ago, AndyFromCB said:

It's 72 but results are not typical, quantity and quality may vary depending on stock availability, no rain checks, "virgins" might actually be manufacturer refurbished models.

72 now that's not a bad way to go, I'm sure it'd kill me.

[thinwing]

On 11/25/2017 at 7:30 PM, NJMac said:

FIL was a great talk. Seemed like we connected and understood each other. MIL almost walked out on me and her daughter when "she had enough". We convinced her to stay and keep talking but reconciliation, let alone understanding doesnt seem likely. Oh well. Guess I'll just fly without her blessing.

Boy am I glad I dont let fear drive my decisions like she does. She said it was her instinct to lookout for her daughter (like Im not). I said my gut response out loud... "male alligators' instinct is to eat their young. Maybe instincts arent all that great after all."


 

You've been given much wisdom about your skill set at 70 hours,weather,terrain,etc However .from reading between the lines ,I sense FIL and MIL do not live together anymore (re. Fri / Sat meetings with them)This could all be about MIL restablishing her dominance in their relationship.She has prior flying experience and has formed an opinion that nobody is going to change.I think you placated the FIL but your failure with the MIL may have nothing to do with you ...it simply be a post divorce wierd family dynamic driven by MIL.ps..I'd be interested if I am correct about FIL/MIL status..

[AndyFromCB]

1 hour ago, M20Doc said:

Sadly that is not an option for Christians in Heaven, unless they relaxed the rules on adulatory recently.

Clarence

 

I mean, once there, what are they going to do to you?

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, AndyFromCB said:

I mean, once there, what are they going to do to you?

Make you read MooneySpace threads on LOP, flaps/no flaps & family pressure. No wait, that's if you end up in the other place.

[mike_elliott]

On 11/27/2017 at 9:51 AM, aviatoreb said:

I'm afraid you might be remembered for something else....  hint - those pictures you keep assaulting my eyes with.

Chris will get his just due, Erik, Karma is a "bi&ch" and in his case, she will be gravity enhanced...

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Danb said:

72 now that's not a bad way to go, I'm sure it'd kill me.

They is no way of knowing if they're all female virgins!!

Clarence