carusoam Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 Summary... Time frame and other guidance... 5 to 8 years... Family becomes more interested when the plane can reliably travel. Spouses can become more interested, when they aren't scared away by old Narco radios and 1960 styling... Spouses can like flying more, after they get some training like Jolie's 'right seat ready'... unfortunately, big dogs don't last much longer than this time frame. So much changes, more with kids in the house... we have one (unmarried?) MSer that bought a plane to fly his dogs around... @samurai ? An M20E is a great machine... Fantastic for one's early life... Even better for one's Retired life... 2+2 styling is great, up to the point your kids are about 10years old... the seating challenge only lasts about a decade. Then, the college debates begin... Every plane deserves... An engine monitor. Reliable information, needed for proper LOP ops. Fuel flow / totalizer. The best way to keep from running out of fuel. Modern seatbelts/shoulder straps. Stuff that didn't come with the plane... Portable things... gps, radio, CO detector, second battery ... Well trained and practiced pilot. More is better... Other thoughts... a 430W is a great way to add modern nav skills to any plane, today. Install costs are the same as a brand new radio. It will be ancient technology at the end of the 5-8 yr time frame... probably still good for nav/com #2.... Get ready for 2020... ADSB out is going to be required. ADSB In will be great for aiding staying out of thunderstorms/icing. Select your favorite radio supplier... G, BK, A... Select your favorite engine monitor... JPI, EI, Insight and (Primary vs advisory(?)) Don't Expect a financial ROI On Any Of this. The ROI will be in safety and completing a flight as expected, including a return to the airport You just left five minutes ago.... Selling a plane gets easier with these modern tools on board. I can't see the future. I got these ideas reading MS... Best regards, -a- 4 Quote
Oldguy Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, NJMac said: Its a 64 E. That was also a comment that for the cost of a few rebuilt guages would equal a new JPI Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk True, and you would still have old gauges. Chief and others have "instant" rebates on engine monitors right now. I will be moving to the EDM 900 when I pull the primary gauges as I am used to my EDM 830 and like the presentation. If you want to see what the panel on an E can be, find panel pics from @Bob_Belville. He has the EDM 930 and a bunch of other nice avionics. As lots of folks have intimated, make it a marathon rather than a sprint. Some pieces and parts have to go together, but others can be added, updated or replaced over time. 2 Quote
NJMac Posted November 9, 2017 Author Report Posted November 9, 2017 True, and you would still have old gauges. Chief and others have "instant" rebates on engine monitors right now. I will be moving to the EDM 900 when I pull the primary gauges as I am used to my EDM 830 and like the presentation. If you want to see what the panel on an E can be, find panel pics from [mention=8913]Bob_Belville[/mention]. He has the EDM 930 and a bunch of other nice avionics. As lots of folks have intimated, make it a marathon rather than a sprint. Some pieces and parts have to go together, but others can be added, updated or replaced over time. Appreciate the comment about spacing out the improvements. I guess my logic is that the plane has a 400 hr engine. Id rather spend an extra $5k on a monitor now than do something wrong and damage the engine. The. ADSB, 430w, and com panel upgrade seem to be pretty necessary.The other thought was once I get the bird flying, I just want to keep it flying and not have to take it out of service for weeks here or weeks there doing some upgrades that I deferred initially. Maybe im seeing it wrong? Looking at our total investment, i still think we are not under water yet. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote
Bob_Belville Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 29 minutes ago, NJMac said: Appreciate the comment about spacing out the improvements. I guess my logic is that the plane has a 400 hr engine. Id rather spend an extra $5k on a monitor now than do something wrong and damage the engine. The. ADSB, 430w, and com panel upgrade seem to be pretty necessary. The other thought was once I get the bird flying, I just want to keep it flying and not have to take it out of service for weeks here or weeks there doing some upgrades that I deferred initially. Maybe im seeing it wrong? Looking at our total investment, i still think we are not under water yet. Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk You'll pay a lot less and have much less down time in the long run if you bite the old bullet and do it all at once, as I did. But @Marauder certainly can tell you about the advantages of cutting the puppy's tail off an inch at a time. (I spent 50 AMU and was down from 10/3-12/19/2012 for a new panel integrated with new EDM, GTN, PFD, ADS-B, etc I had no call backs which I credit at least in part to mostly new wiring harnesses, etc.) 1 Quote
MIm20c Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 1 hour ago, carusoam said: Summary... Time frame and other guidance... 5 to 8 years... Family becomes more interested when the plane can reliably travel. Spouses can become more interested, when they aren't scared away by old Narco radios and 1960 styling... Spouses can like flying more, after they get some training like Jolie's 'right seat ready'... unfortunately, big dogs don't last much longer than this time frame. So much changes, more with kids in the house... we have one (unmarried?) MSer that bought a plane to fly his dogs around... @samurai ? An M20E is a great machine... Fantastic for one's early life... Even better for one's Retired life... 2+2 styling is great, up to the point your kids are about 10years old... the seating challenge only lasts about a decade. Then, the college debates begin... Every plane deserves... An engine monitor. Reliable information, needed for proper LOP ops. Fuel flow / totalizer. The best way to keep from running out of fuel. Modern seatbelts/shoulder straps. Stuff that didn't come with the plane... well trained and practiced pilot. More is better... Other thoughts... a 430W is a great way to add modern nav skills to any plane, today. Install costs are the same as a brand new radio. It will be ancient technology at the end of the 5-8 yr time frame... probably still good for nav/com #2.... Get ready for 2020... ADSB out is going to be required. ADSB In will be great for aiding staying out of thunderstorms/icing. Select your favorite radio supplier... G, BK, A... Select your favorite engine monitor... JPI, EI, Insight and (Primary vs advisory(?)) Don't Expect a financial ROI On Any Of this. The ROI will be in safety and completing a flight as expected, including a return to the airport You just left five minutes ago.... Selling a plane gets easier with these modern tools on board. I can't see the future. I got these ideas reading MS... Best regards, -a- Not sure how you find time for all the informative summaries but I do enjoy reading them and agree. 2 Quote
Marauder Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 You'll pay a lot less and have much less down time in the long run if you bite the old bullet and do it all at once, as I did. But [mention=9886]Marauder[/mention] certainly can tell you about the advantages of cutting the puppy's tail off an inch at a time. (I spent 50 AMU and was down from 10/3-12/19/2012 for a new panel integrated with new EDM, GTN, PFD, ADS-B, etc I had no call backs which I credit at least in part to mostly new wiring harnesses, etc.) My advice based doing upgrades over multiple years (aka cutting that poor puppy’s tail off inch by inch) is not to do it. You end up paying for stuff multiple times.Just like surgery, the least number of times you are cut open, the better. If I were to do it again, I would have batch some of the upgrades.Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 2 Quote
Danb Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 I can attest to the surgery analogy. 1 Quote
Bob_Belville Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Danb said: I can attest to the surgery analogy. What "surgery"? I'm imagining a delinquent yute (yoot?) and a boy scout hatchet. Quote
Marauder Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 What "surgery"? I'm imagining a delinquent yute (yoot?) and a boy scout hatchet. Intestinal surgerySent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro 1 Quote
Bob_Belville Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 Just now, Marauder said: Intestinal surgery Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro Yeah, makes one want to barf. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted November 9, 2017 Report Posted November 9, 2017 I added another line for the OP... portable things... gps, radio, CO detector, second battery ... being lost, out of communication, unconscious, or out of electrons while flying can be annoying to the passengers... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted November 10, 2017 Report Posted November 10, 2017 8 hours ago, Marauder said: My advice based doing upgrades over multiple years (aka cutting that poor puppy’s tail off inch by inch) is not to do it. You end up paying for stuff multiple times. Just like surgery, the least number of times you are cut open, the better. If I were to do it again, I would have batch some of the upgrades. Yep, I took this hybrid approach. It took me almost a year to collect all the parts, instruments, gps, radios, etc that I wanted in my new panel. I bought some used, some swaps, some on closeout deals, but didn't pay retail for a single thing. Then had it all installed in one massive, rip everything out and start over, operation. 2 Quote
bradp Posted November 11, 2017 Report Posted November 11, 2017 I’m collecting things and going forward in a staged approach. But what I did decide to do is try to open up the right side of the panel only once and then go left. This is like operating on your brain one month and your colon the next month. The wife seems to be much more okay with avionics if she can see how they work towards safety efficiency etc. She also keeps me in check so I don’t you know spend an imaginary child’s college savings on avionics. 1 Quote
Andy95W Posted November 11, 2017 Report Posted November 11, 2017 2 hours ago, bradp said: She also keeps me in check so I don’t you know spend an imaginary child’s college savings on avionics. 1 Aspen = 1 year Community College instead of in-state school. 2 Quote
Bug Smasher Posted November 12, 2017 Report Posted November 12, 2017 If you plan to spend time in the soup, I highly recommend a reliable autopilot as well. 2 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted November 12, 2017 Report Posted November 12, 2017 4 hours ago, Bug Smasher said: If you plan to spend time in the soup, I highly recommend a reliable autopilot as well. Yes. If it doesn't have a good autopilot, I'd sell it and get one that does. That is one component that is MUCH cheaper to buy already installed, rather than having one installed. Quote
NJMac Posted November 12, 2017 Author Report Posted November 12, 2017 Yes. If it doesn't have a good autopilot, I'd sell it and get one that does. That is one component that is MUCH cheaper to buy already installed, rather than having one installed. My guess is it'll take me about a year to get the instrument rating. Hopefully the tru trac is certified and we can put that in during the next annual which should coincide with me being instrument-rated.The mechanic and avionics guy talked with me last week and they're suggesting putting a docking station into the panel on the right side. They're recommending an air Gizmo for the iPad Mini that we use. Does anyone have any experience with that? I took my wife up in the 172 yesterday and held the mini in that area, and I'm not sure that I'm really going to like it in a fixed position so far from my eyes like that.Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote
gsxrpilot Posted November 12, 2017 Report Posted November 12, 2017 In my experience, an iPad mini fits great on the yoke of a Mooney. I've used mine that way in my C and then again in my K. Much better than in the panel in my opinion... and much cheaper as well. 3 Quote
MIm20c Posted November 13, 2017 Report Posted November 13, 2017 @NJMac I think it’s a great idea if you want two mini iPads. One on the yoke and the other in the dock. But IMO one tablet should be in front of you for plates and sectional usage. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted November 13, 2017 Report Posted November 13, 2017 Smart phones and tablets add a lot of value. Having them wired to ship's power adds to their value. Having them supply attitude type info is a great capability. If a docking station makes that happen... +1. I don't have a docking station yet... Best regards, -a- 1 Quote
tigers2007 Posted November 13, 2017 Report Posted November 13, 2017 Here is my setup. I went from the bizarre “shotgun” panel to a six pack plus GTN and Lynx NGT9000. Note the Insight G1 and Stratus USB outlet. About $26k all in. It was someone’s comment here that read “you only live once” that put me over the edge. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 Quote
gsxrpilot Posted November 13, 2017 Report Posted November 13, 2017 Nice touch with the carbon fiber panel. It looks great! 1 Quote
NJMac Posted November 13, 2017 Author Report Posted November 13, 2017 If you want to get rid of the shotgun panel ...and you’re a little handy ... and can work with an IA .... contact Dan at LASAR ... he might be able to guide you with hardware and owner produced panels .... I did mine (left and right) two summers ago at a cost of about $550 for parts, a little vacuum hose, paint and new placards ... plus labor for my IA ... who installed the engine monitor at the same time and inspected my work ..... before /after (edited to add photos) Since you have experience with both a non-standard and standard six pack, is the upgrade worthwhile in your mind? Or were you comfortable with the shotgun orientation previously? Don't you become comfortable to what's familiar?Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk Quote
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