Flight instrument removal

[Mark89114]

I work with a pretty sharp qualified mechanic, just not a lot of Mooney experience.  I need to overhaul the standby AI and before I pay for him to learn, I would like to see if anybody knows the best way for this standby AI TO BE Removed.  Is it accessible from underneath?  Or some other way?  Thanks for advice.  

[N6758N]

Edit, I just saw this was for the standby. It will have to be removed from behind. There should be two vacuum lines to disconnect first, then remove the 4 screws and push it through the panel. 

[LANCECASPER]

Looks to me like it has to come from the top. Moritz gauges first, then VOR, then standby AI. It can’t come out the front - it has to be unscrewed and pushed back after it’s disconnected in the back. It probably won’t cost much, if any, more to have an avionics shop do it since they do this all the time.

[N6758N]

10 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

Looks to me like it has to come from the top. Moritz gauges first, then VOR, then standby AI. It can’t come out the front - it has to be unscrewed and pushed back after it’s disconnected in the back. It probably won’t cost much, if any, more to have an avionics shop do it since they do this all the time.

Why would you go from the top and not the bottom? Less stuff in the way from there. 

[Mark89114]

The avionics shop on field I am not impressed with.  

Top or bottom is reason I am asking and trying to minimize what is dissambled.

[ArtVandelay]

Either way, via top you have to take off the glareshield, bottom you have to remove the seats. I would try bottom, the area behind the switches should be clear enough to get a hand in there and still have good visibility.

[bradp]

Go to the side- remove the VSI there's less stuff connected to it (you may be able to get away with not disconnecting the static system if your tubes aren't brittle and you support the instrument), disconnect and unscrew the AI and move it laterally to where the VSI lives.  Then you should have clearance by moving the instrument forward around the switches and down to the pilots footwell.

 

Sometimes lazy is good. 

[Guest]

5 hours ago, Mark89114 said:

I work with a pretty sharp qualified mechanic, just not a lot of Mooney experience.  I need to overhaul the standby AI and before I pay for him to learn, I would like to see if anybody knows the best way for this standby AI TO BE Removed.  Is it accessible from underneath?  Or some other way?  Thanks for advice.  

If your guy or gal is sharpe it should not present a challenge to remove it.  

Lower and slide the crew seats aft, lay across the seats, disconnect the vacuum hoses or electric connection,  likely remove the VSI, remove the mounting screws while supporting the gyro from below/behind move it to the left and lower it carefully.

Clarence

[RLCarter]

I agree with Clarence, regardless of Mooney experience or not they should have it out in short order

[Tommy]

Sounds you don't have much confidence in your current shop. 

May I suggest, something that I always do before my mechanics pulling off anything, taking lots of photos before you even start and few photos at different stages of disassembly. So that everything are put back in the right order and complete. 

[carusoam]

Try to get familiar with it...

follow the yoke shaft with your eyes first...

Getting your head in there will be an immediate challenge.

Then do the same snaking your iPhone in there instead of your eyes...

If there is a lot of room and you get a great photo of the device, your discussions with the shop just got easier..!

Best regards,

-a-

[markejackson02]

It should take about 10 minutes to remove from under the panel.  Biggest PITB is actually getting it out of there once you have disconnected the various vacuum lines or wires.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

If it is a vacuum AI the hoses can be a pain.

You don't have to take out the seats to crawl under the panel. At 60 it is getting a bit harder.

[RLCarter]

12 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

At 60 it is getting a bit harder.

At 57 it ain't no cakewalk, but being 6'1" and 225#'s doesn't help much, luckily my A&P/IA is a rubbery 37 and skinny

[jkhirsch]

Clearly the only way to do this is to smash it out with a hammer (I recommend the dead blow; plus you can get this wonderful 3 piece set https://www.amazon.com/TEKTON-30709-Dead-Hammer-48-Ounce/dp/B00GMN4F3C/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1508165079&sr=8-2&keywords=dead+blow+hammer)  from the front and then vacuum the pieces out with a shop-vac, I personally recommend the https://www.amazon.com/Shop-Vac-5986000-5-Gallon-Stainless-Vacuum/dp/B00EPH63K0/ref=sr_1_4?s=hardware&ie=UTF8&qid=1508164877&sr=1-4&keywords=shop-vac

It is "Amazon's choice" so it can't be wrong and personally I hate the Red/Black/White colorway, but the 4-star rating is inarguable.

Don't forget to use smile.amazon.com to provide benefits to the Mooney Summit/Bill Gilliland Foundation.

Edited October 16, 2017 by jkhirsch

[Marauder]

On 10/13/2017 at 12:36 PM, Mark89114 said:

I work with a pretty sharp qualified mechanic, just not a lot of Mooney experience.  I need to overhaul the standby AI and before I pay for him to learn, I would like to see if anybody knows the best way for this standby AI TO BE Removed.  Is it accessible from underneath?  Or some other way?  Thanks for advice.  

Clearly, the easiest thing to do is have a full panel remake.  Way, way too hard to get to some of those items.

[Mark89114]

It is not accessible from below at all.....maybe if a tiny midget (sorry little person) and could climb up in there you might have a chance.  I tried to pull the hoses off the fittings, but they were on their hard, I couldn't move them at all.  I was concerned about breaking or torqueing the fitting so we gave up and went in from the top.  Removal of the glareshield, Moritz cluster and CDI took about 15 minutes.  Well worth the time to do it that way.  The hoses still were inflexibly stuck onto fitting so just cut them off, they are only 4-5 years old and it is easy enough to replace when accessing from the top, I am saying easy now as we haven't replaced them yet.  And in addition to hose removal their was an instrument bezel light hardwired into some harness going into bowels of plane.  

For those who voiced concern about my mechanic, that isn't the issue.  I just wanted a good starting point to approach the problem, I certainly understand there is a huge variety of airplanes represented here and if I could have saved some time by going from the top first I would have done that, I didn't, I think the responses above were leaning toward the bottom, that is incorrect.  I am telling you no way could you have gotten this out from the bottom or side.

Will advise on reinstall if anybody wants to know.   

[N201MKTurbo]

3 hours ago, Mark89114 said:

  

Glad you figured it out. Even if somebody had the same plane, after a few avionics installs and repair jobs the wiring and hose routing are probably not factory so what works on one plane may not work on another.

[laytonl]

Those hoses are a PITA.  I just removed my AI for an overhaul and it was a real pain.  I went from the bottom, removing the HSI and then th AI. The tiny screws on the back of the vacuum warning switch are fun too.  Lee

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, Mark89114 said:

It is not accessible from below at all.....maybe if a tiny midget (sorry little person) and could climb up in there you might have a chance.  I tried to pull the hoses off the fittings, but they were on their hard, I couldn't move them at all.  I was concerned about breaking or torqueing the fitting so we gave up and went in from the top.  Removal of the glareshield, Moritz cluster and CDI took about 15 minutes.  Well worth the time to do it that way.  The hoses still were inflexibly stuck onto fitting so just cut them off, they are only 4-5 years old and it is easy enough to replace when accessing from the top, I am saying easy now as we haven't replaced them yet.  And in addition to hose removal their was an instrument bezel light hardwired into some harness going into bowels of plane.  

For those who voiced concern about my mechanic, that isn't the issue.  I just wanted a good starting point to approach the problem, I certainly understand there is a huge variety of airplanes represented here and if I could have saved some time by going from the top first I would have done that, I didn't, I think the responses above were leaning toward the bottom, that is incorrect.  I am telling you no way could you have gotten this out from the bottom or side.

Will advise on reinstall if anybody wants to know.   

 

On 10/13/2017 at 1:22 PM, LANCECASPER said:

Looks to me like it has to come from the top. Moritz gauges first, then VOR, then standby AI. It can’t come out the front - it has to be unscrewed and pushed back after it’s disconnected in the back. It probably won’t cost much, if any, more to have an avionics shop do it since they do this all the time.

Not to say "I told you so" . . lol. One of my hangar elves told me.

I wouldn't spend the money on another backup vacuum Attitude Indicator. People are pulling out Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Attitude Gyros with battery backups when they put in glass panels. These are rated for 7,500 hours before failure. 

I replaced my turn coordinator with a Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Attitude Gyro with battery backup that I bought for $750. Excellent value.

I replaced the batteries in the battery backup for $45 instead of $300 through Midcontinent.

Mid Continent 9015607.pdf

 

[LANCECASPER]

On 10/13/2017 at 1:35 PM, N6758N said:

Why would you go from the top and not the bottom? Less stuff in the way from there. 

Because the TKS indicator, Rudder trim Indicator, throttle control , prop control and center console are in the way.

From the top you take off the glareshield, then it's 4 screws to take out the Moritz - un plug it, 4 screws and unplug the VOR indicator and you have a clear shot at it.

[N6758N]

Just now, LANCECASPER said:

Because the TKS indicator, Rudder trim Indicator, throttle control , prop control and center console are in the way.

From the top you take off the glareshield, then it's 4 screws to take out the Moritz - un plug it, 4 screws and unplug the VOR indicator and you have a clear shot at it.

You might think so, but I'd be willing to bet I could removed that AI without taking out any of the above mentioned items...I only worked as a tech in an Avionics shop for a few years so I'm certainly no expert though.

[LANCECASPER]

12 minutes ago, N6758N said:

You might think so, but I'd be willing to bet I could removed that AI without taking out any of the above mentioned items...I only worked as a tech in an Avionics shop for a few years so I'm certainly no expert though.

 

In his first post he was looking for the best way. A stick of dynamite would have also removed it, but that's not the best way. I've owned 4 non-G1000 long bodies (M & R) and been up underneath the instrument panel more times than I care to remember. While I'm sure nearly anything is possible, such as someone finally getting it out from the bottom, he tried taking it out from the bottom and couldn't do it as his follow up mentions. Once he went from the top it was much easier, taking him only 15 minutes. 

[Mark89114]

16 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

 

Not to say "I told you so" . . lol. One of my hangar elves told me.

I wouldn't spend the money on another backup vacuum Attitude Indicator. People are pulling out Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Attitude Gyros with battery backups when they put in glass panels. These are rated for 7,500 hours before failure. 

I replaced my turn coordinator with a Mid-Continent Lifesaver Electric Attitude Gyro with battery backup that I bought for $750. Excellent value.

I replaced the batteries in the battery backup for $45 instead of $300 through Midcontinent.

Mid Continent 9015607.pdf

 

I can't say I disagree with ditching vacuum AI, I see that coming in the next few years, but the million dollar question is with what?  The whole Dynon Skyview system looks like a solution, ADSB, engine monitor, flight instruments, etc. in one package.  I am having the AI overhauled for couple hundred bucks and only 3-4 days down time.  Needed to get it done.     

I am telling the posters who think it could be done from underneath, no way Jose.  I have the blood stains to prove it.  

I see you have four AI's....do you think that is enough?  

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Mark89114 said:

I can't say I disagree with ditching vacuum AI, I see that coming in the next few years, but the million dollar question is with what?  The whole Dynon Skyview system looks like a solution, ADSB, engine monitor, flight instruments, etc. in one package.  I am having the AI overhauled for couple hundred bucks and only 3-4 days down time.  Needed to get it done.     

I am telling the posters who think it could be done from underneath, no way Jose.  I have the blood stains to prove it.  

I see you have four AI's....do you think that is enough?  

Haha, actually 5 with the iPad - in case of an AI failure, majority rules! 

I see you have the best King autopilot ever made for GA - the KFC225