I'll switch to Aeroshell 100W now

[RobertGary1]

For decades I've been running expensive Elite oil. Last year I decided to go with AeroShell 15W50 with camguard since it didn't seem less good and I can get it much cheaper. However, I've read more articles saying that 100W may be better. Now I read this from Blackstone labs and I think I've made up my mind. The results isn't a screaming endorsement for any one oil but it certainly indicates that more expensive oils are not any better. In the winter I may just keep a spoon in the plane to get it out though.

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f641390cba42169db49e0cd6e/files/e3ff8058-394c-43fd-bd81-56593f7c55a8/Aug_17_AC.01.pdf

 

-Robert

 

[peevee]

I believe they tested w100 plus.

[gsengle]

I use 100W plus in an io550... im just passing TBO, no leaks, good compressions, making no metal. Preheat religiously below 50 or 60F. Don't like multi viscosity because sometimes I go a while between flights and want the oil to stay up in the engine.


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[Robert C.]

1 hour ago, peevee said:

I believe they tested w100 plus.

They tested both.

[N6758N]

I always been a fan of Aeroshell oils and particularly 100W+, however if you read the article they state at the end that the difference in wear rate is so insignificant it would not be noticeable to an owner/operator.  

[peevee]

5 minutes ago, N6758N said:

I always been a fan of Aeroshell oils and particularly 100W+, however if you read the article they state at the end that the difference in wear rate is so insignificant it would not be noticeable to an owner/operator.  

We run it exclusively because it's what ram recommends for the big bore contis

[RobertGary1]

16 minutes ago, N6758N said:

I always been a fan of Aeroshell oils and particularly 100W+, however if you read the article they state at the end that the difference in wear rate is so insignificant it would not be noticeable to an owner/operator.  

That's what I said. Not enough benefit to pay for the more expensive stuff.

-Robert

[Vance Harral]

Test results like this are one of the reasons we switched to Phillips XC20W-50 from Aeroshell 15W-50.  It's the cheapest option in these parts, and while I have no problem paying more for actual higher quality, there's no reason to pay more for clearly equivalent results.  The other reason we switched is the issue mentioned in the Blackstone report about additives in Aeroshell reacting with the copper flashing on the camshaft and causing high copper readings.  We saw that in our oil analysis.  The higher copper from this is harmless in itself, but my thinking is it could mask copper wear from other components.

[rbridges]

I used w100 for a while but recently switched to a multi weight  oil. I think the lowest operating temp for w100 is 40f or so. Even Georgia winters get lower than that. Maybe I'm wrong with the numbers but that's what I have in my head for some reason. 

[gsengle]

I used w100 for a while but recently switched to a multi weight  oil. I think the lowest operating temp for w100 is 40f or so. Even Georgia winters get lower than that. Maybe I'm wrong with the numbers but that's what I have in my head for some reason. 

I use straight weight because it congeals up in the engine and stays there providing protection to the top end when there is more than a few days between flights. Necessitates pre heating when it gets cold, but the benefit of not draining so quickly is worth it imho.


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[jonhop]

6 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

For decades I've been running expensive Elite oil. Last year I decided to go with AeroShell 15W50 with camguard since it didn't seem less good and I can get it much cheaper. However, I've read more articles saying that 100W may be better. Now I read this from Blackstone labs and I think I've made up my mind. The results isn't a screaming endorsement for any one oil but it certainly indicates that more expensive oils are not any better. In the winter I may just keep a spoon in the plane to get it out though.

https://gallery.mailchimp.com/f641390cba42169db49e0cd6e/files/e3ff8058-394c-43fd-bd81-56593f7c55a8/Aug_17_AC.01.pdf

 

-Robert

 

Great article....

Paul @kortopates, perhaps Savvy should consider using big data analysis with regard to oil samples... There has to be decades of reports that a big data platform can analyze for all engine types.

[Tommy]

6 hours ago, RobertGary1 said:

. In the winter I may just keep a spoon in the plane to get it out though.

 

Not sure what do you mean by this? Are you saying that you will be mixing oil? Some oil are not allowed to be mixed AFAIK. 

[jetdriven]

All oil is ok to mix.  That's another OWT. 

[XXX]

27 minutes ago, Tommy said:

Not sure what do you mean by this? Are you saying that you will be mixing oil? Some oil are not allowed to be mixed AFAIK. 

It gets thick like @Marauder s girls in the cold.

 

[Aviationinfo]

I've read before that these engines just don't have the tight tolerances to justify synthetics, or partial synthetics.  

[Tommy]

1 hour ago, jetdriven said:

All oil is ok to mix.  That's another OWT. 

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/10387125/mixing-piston-aviation-oils-will-topping-off-with-a-different-brand-weight-or-type-harm-the-engine

How is this for vagueness? 

"Stick with a brand the pilot prefers when you can, but any approved aviation piston engine oil brand for emergency top-offs. Topping off the oil level is much better than flying low on oil, even if it is not the preferred brand or the right viscosity."

"I'm not recommending that owner/operators make their own oil by mixing a quart of one type of oil with a quart of another type oil during oil changes, but rather when a situation arises where you are down on oil, the decision to add a different brand or grade is a good one since this will not cause any engine problems."

So the short answer is don't do it but do it... 

Why recommend against something that doesn't harm anything? 

[bradp]

I use a multi viscosity oil- especially in the winter - my rationalle is that I'd like to get all the oil I can to the cam, lifters and valve guides for our lycoming engines. In the winter straight weight flows like thick honey molasses.  I know that's not getting up into those tight little Orifaces....

[gsengle]

I use a multi viscosity oil- especially in the winter - my rationalle is that I'd like to get all the oil I can to the cam, lifters and valve guides for our lycoming engines. In the winter straight weight flows like thick honey molasses.  I know that's not getting up into those tight little Orifaces....

To use straight weight you have to commit to preheating well. The idea isn't to get it up there it's to keep it from exiting all those areas between flights in the first place... which inhibits rust.


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[RobertGary1]

3 hours ago, Tommy said:

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/10387125/mixing-piston-aviation-oils-will-topping-off-with-a-different-brand-weight-or-type-harm-the-engine

How is this for vagueness? 

"Stick with a brand the pilot prefers when you can, but any approved aviation piston engine oil brand for emergency top-offs. Topping off the oil level is much better than flying low on oil, even if it is not the preferred brand or the right viscosity."

"I'm not recommending that owner/operators make their own oil by mixing a quart of one type of oil with a quart of another type oil during oil changes, but rather when a situation arises where you are down on oil, the decision to add a different brand or grade is a good one since this will not cause any engine problems."

So the short answer is don't do it but do it... 

Why recommend against something that doesn't harm anything? 

The MIL specs the oils have to meet guarantees that mixing viscosities or brands is safe. Or it wouldn't be legal to use in aircraft at all. 

-Robert  

[Tommy]

5 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

The MIL specs the oils have to meet guarantees that mixing viscosities or brands is safe. Or it wouldn't be legal to use in aircraft at all. 

-Robert  

Yes, but safe doesn't mean good. That's how I interpreted this Aviationpro article. @jetdriven is right in saying that it's "ok" to mix oil but then this article said only do it when you don't the same type + brand of oil.

[jetdriven]

1 minute ago, Tommy said:

Yes, but safe doesn't mean good. That's how I interpreted this Aviationpro article. @jetdriven is right in saying that it's "ok" to mix oil but then this article said only do it when you don't the same type + brand of oil.

That article said three times it's perfectly safe to mix aviation oil, even non AD oil. You pick one sentence from 3 pages to back up your false hypothesis.  

[Tommy]

35 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

That article said three times it's perfectly safe to mix aviation oil, even non AD oil. You pick one sentence from 3 pages to back up your false hypothesis.  

Yes I said it in no uncertain terms that it's safe but it doesn't mean it's good (well at least that's how I interpreted)!

Tell me, if it's good or do absolutely no harm to mix the oil then why he recommends only in emergency top-off?

[Raptor05121]

8 hours ago, rbridges said:

I used w100 for a while but recently switched to a multi weight  oil. I think the lowest operating temp for w100 is 40f or so. Even Georgia winters get lower than that. Maybe I'm wrong with the numbers but that's what I have in my head for some reason. 

I'm in N Fla, I run 100W+, I think the coldest flight I flew was in January, OAT was ~35*F but my hangar was about 45*F. I only flew two cold flights that would've required a pre-heater.

[jetdriven]

Yes I said it in no uncertain terms that it's safe but it doesn't mean it's good (well at least that's how I interpreted)!

Tell me, if it's good or do absolutely no harm to mix the oil then why he recommends only in emergency top-off?

 

Why don't you ask him why he said it was perfectly fine to use any oil but then used the word "emergency" for top off?  I think that word was inserted unnecessarily. I don't mix oils but I'll top off with whatever is in front of me. Unless you can find some reason other than one guys opinion he refuted twice in the same article, I'd say that was prudent practice. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by jetdriven

[kortopates]

6 hours ago, jonhop said:

Great article....

Paul @kortopates, perhaps Savvy should consider using big data analysis with regard to oil samples... There has to be decades of reports that a big data platform can analyze for all engine types.

Of course we're very much into big data analysis of our vast flight data. But we have to leave oil type, its consumption and metal analysis to folks that analyze oil samples like Blackstone since we have way of tracking that.

But FWIW, at Savvy, Mike has always been recommending straight weight oils when possible and the Phillips x-ctry for those that need a multi-weight - both with Camguard.