Need feedback on panel

[FBV]

My co-owner and I are getting ready to pull the trigger in a panel upgrade. I'd like to collect your input if anybody has any pointers on what we are currently thinking. ADS-B is obviously not included here but is being considered depending on our budget. We may wait until more affordable units come available. We currently have a stratux/ raspberry Pi solution that broadcasts ADS-B in to a yoke mounted iPad mini. This is for a 1966 M20e.

 

[gsengle]

Unless you're fine staying clear of ADSB airspace this would really be the time to do it. I don't think prices will ever be lower, and going back in to do an install will be more expensive later. Besides what you pick should be incorporated in your design. Just my .02

That said a lot of the ADSB transponders will fit in the slot vacated by your existing one and a number can be driven by the Garmin gps.

Have you considered Avidyne? They're including a free ADSB transponder as a promo I believe right now!


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[LANCECASPER]

11 minutes ago, gsengle said:

Unless you're fine staying clear of ADSB airspace this would really be the time to do it. I don't think prices will ever be lower, and going back in to do an install will be more expensive later. Besides what you pick should be incorporated in your design. Just my .02

That said a lot of the ADSB transponders will fit in the slot vacated by your existing one and a number can be driven by the Garmin gps.

Have you considered Avidyne? They're including a free ADSB transponder as a promo I believe right now!


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And the remote transponder they are including (AXP322) will free up panel space for the IFD540 (or 550) so you have a larger screen.

[Oscar Avalle]

Looks really nice. I would just keep more space if you decide to upgrade to a JPI 930 or an EI engine monitoring system in replacement for you current 730.


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[Oldguy]

If you have the funds, the JPI 830 would be a nice upgrade. It appears you have FF on the current JPI (or are installing it new), so the upgrade would entail making the hole larger and plugging the cables into the back of the 830. This would put the majority of your gauges (though they would not be primary) right in your scan area.

I don't know if the 650 is new or replacing a 430, but if new I would agree with folks above to really look at the Avidyne 440 for same space or 540/550 and remote mount the transponder/ADS-B out hardware from Avidyne. If a replacement, then definitely look at a 440 for the simplicity of a slide-in replacement (if 430W).

If you really want the 650, consider the 345 for ADS-B out or the Stratus ESG.

So many possible responses, but since I am not quite sure what you currently have and what you are adding/replacing, this is all I got.

[KSMooniac]

I'd swap the ASI and altimeter to keep those in standard locations if only to stay common with the fleet.

Triple-check the depth behind the panel to make sure a GPS/COM can fit in the top slot. It won't in my J, so the audio panel lives there. It looks like a GMA-340 in your pic....I'd swap for a PSE unit for better performance.

I'd also strongly encourage going with an EDM-730 or -830, or the 900 if you can swing it. You will like any of those more than the -700.

All that aside, it looks like a great layout and far nicer than original shotgun style!

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[jetdriven]

One concerning thing is the only nav source is the GTN650.  If it quits, such as by water getting the avionics access panels, you have no nav capability. 

Edited April 27, 2017 by jetdriven

[Marauder]

My co-owner and I are getting ready to pull the trigger in a panel upgrade. I'd like to collect your input if anybody has any pointers on what we are currently thinking. ADS-B is obviously not included here but is being considered depending on our budget. We may wait until more affordable units come available. We currently have a stratux/ raspberry Pi solution that broadcasts ADS-B in to a yoke mounted iPad mini. This is for a 1966 M20e.
 

Unlike Anthony (caurosam), I am willing to provide avionics advice despite not being an avionics expert. There are a few things I would change. Consider moving the AI up to the right of the G5, move ASI to the normally located spot to the left of the G5 and put the altimeter to right.

If you are cutting a new panel and the engine analyzer in the 2.5" hole is a stop gap until you can get a more complex analyzer, I would make it a 3.25" hole and put a matching insert for the small analyzer. That way you won't need to cut the panel later.

Another option is to leave the smaller analyzer where it is and if you elect to move to something like a JPI 900, you can pull your factory quad and put it there.


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[Marauder]

Also, where is your clock?


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[Marauder]

I just noticed that your audio panel looks like it is in the middle of the stack. Most airplanes have it on the top of the center stack.

Also, as for ADS-B, I think your location of a transponder makes it an easy transition to a GTX-345, L-3 or perhaps a remote mounted ADS-B.


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[Schinderhannes]

If you plan to fly IFR i would defiantly install a second NAV/COM. A KX125 would be the least costly option. You should be able to find one for not much more than the KY197. The KX125 doesn't require an indicator and has the LT/RT signal for the Brittain autopilot. Another option would be a non-precision (IFR) GPS (KLN89B, GX50, SL50, Garmin155) if you have space to keep the KY197. Or use the proceeds from the sale of the COMM to buy the pricier Comm/GPS version of the aforementioned units. 

Instead of a CDI why not install a NSD360 HSI? You can find good used units for the same amount you spend on the CDI. 

Even if you don't install an ADS-B out transponder, I would replace the KT76A with a Garmin GTX327. For $400 you get a much newer unit with additional features and a more modern look. Even more important the GTX327 has a serial interface to control ADS-B out transmitters.

 

 

[FBV]

Unless you're fine staying clear of ADSB airspace this would really be the time to do it. I don't think prices will ever be lower, and going back in to do an install will be more expensive later. Besides what you pick should be incorporated in your design. Just my .02

That said a lot of the ADSB transponders will fit in the slot vacated by your existing one and a number can be driven by the Garmin gps.

Have you considered Avidyne? They're including a free ADSB transponder as a promo I believe right now!


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Thabks for the comments thus far. The Acidyne IF 540 with free ads-b in/out is being offered on their website and looks to be an interesting option that is equivalent in price to a GTN650 + GTX345. The bonus being a larger display. I'm sure it has other features beyond the 650 hence it's popularity. I'll scope this more.


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[FBV]

I'd swap the ASI and altimeter to keep those in standard locations if only to stay common with the fleet.

Triple-check the depth behind the panel to make sure a GPS/COM can fit in the top slot. It won't in my J, so the audio panel lives there. It looks like a GMA-340 in your pic....I'd swap for a PSE unit for better performance.

I'd also strongly encourage going with an EDM-730 or -830, or the 900 if you can swing it. You will like any of those more than the -700.

All that aside, it looks like a great layout and far nicer than original shotgun style!

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JPI has a 730--> 830 upgrade on the ACS site that's around $1200. Other than displaying more information, does it allow me to remove any of the engine instruments on the right side of the radio stack?


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[FBV]

Also, where is your clock?


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My clock is on the yoke, it's not ticking anymore. Is there some place I can send it for repair? Otherwise, I'd imagine the WAAS GPS has a clock that suffices for IFR compliance?


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[KSMooniac]

Only the 900 or 930 allow you to remove original engine instruments, except I think there is a -711 variant (like a 700) that might substitute for EGT or fuel flow only...I can't remember. Otherwise, they are advisory only unless you get the 9x0 unit.

I love my 900 and did a supervised installation myself to keep the cost down.

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[FBV]

If you have the funds, the JPI 830 would be a nice upgrade. It appears you have FF on the current JPI (or are installing it new), so the upgrade would entail making the hole larger and plugging the cables into the back of the 830. This would put the majority of your gauges (though they would not be primary) right in your scan area.
I don't know if the 650 is new or replacing a 430, but if new I would agree with folks above to really look at the Avidyne 440 for same space or 540/550 and remote mount the transponder/ADS-B out hardware from Avidyne. If a replacement, then definitely look at a 440 for the simplicity of a slide-in replacement (if 430W).
If you really want the 650, consider the 345 for ADS-B out or the Stratus ESG.
So many possible responses, but since I am not quite sure what you currently have and what you are adding/replacing, this is all I got.

We already own everything but the IFR GPS and the G5. Trying to keep things economical since investment here will yield 50 cents on the dollar at resale. Currently the plane is equipped with a KNS 80 and the original shotgun panel. So the driving factor here is to get IFR GPS capable and less dependent on the vacuum system. And of course, a face lift. The one piece panel offers additional complexity at install, but the look is cleaner. Here is the current set-up:


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[KSMooniac]

If your KNS-80 still works well, you might consider keeping it. Make separate panels for left and right (I've never seen one piece panels in a Mooney) and you can more easily replace that side later. You could use an old CDI for the -80, and perhaps a second G5 as an HSI with the GTN, and ditch the backup mechanical AI. Dual G5's give you AI redundancy.

Or just depend on a portable whatever for backup nav... That is far easier to stomach with a modern panel than it was 20+ years ago.

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[gsengle]

My clock is on the yoke, it's not ticking anymore. Is there some place I can send it for repair? Otherwise, I'd imagine the WAAS GPS has a clock that suffices for IFR compliance?


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Usually I believe the specific clock that came with the plane has to be maintained working for compliance with the airworthiness certificate - you can't substitute, except maybe with an stc? Something to ask your avionics guy and to look at the aircraft paperwork for. A dead clock and you might not be airworthy


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[KSMooniac]

A clock is required for IFR, and STC replacements are of course perfectly acceptable. My J came with a nice Davtron m811b instead of the original mechanical unit. (Those are collectible, so don't trash them!)

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[Bug Smasher]

Looks awesome! If you're going to have the panel apart and incur the avionics labor costs anyway, you might as well bite the bullet and install an ADS-B capable transponder now. It would be a shame to have to pay someone to pull the stack apart in a year or two. Not to mention, your airplane would be offline again for a week or two at least.

[JoshMan]

Do you guys by chance know if the GTX345 fulfills the clock requirement?

[gsxrpilot]

6 hours ago, FBV said:

I'll agree with @Marauder and others that you've got the round gauges in the wrong holes.

In the center stack, the audio panel should be at the top and will fit better than the GPS. The GPS might be too deep for that location.

As other's have said, and IFD540 with AXP322 remote transponder is a really nice set up and what I've just put in my 252. In fact, if you'd get the IFD550, it has ARS built in that can backup the AI and then you can skip the G5. I know the G5 is a cool instrument and I just bought one myself. But if I can get the same safety/backup in the event of a vacuum failure without it, I would rather add more IFR capability in the form of an HSI. You can pick one up used for $1000 all day long.

IFD550 GPS + AXP322 Transponder + HSI will give you a solid IFR panel and add a KX155 or 165 for a secondary nav/com.

[FBV]

Here is a friend of mine that has a 1 piece panel in his F. This is the look I was going for.


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[StevenL757]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Consider moving the AI up to the right of the G5, move ASI to the normally located spot to the left of the G5 and put the altimeter to right.

If you are cutting a new panel and the engine analyzer in the 2.5" hole is a stop gap until you can get a more complex analyzer, I would make it a 3.25" hole and put a matching insert for the small analyzer. That way you won't need to cut the panel later.

Another option is to leave the smaller analyzer where it is and if you elect to move to something like a JPI 900, you can pull your factory quad and put it there.
 

Agree...with a few adds:

1.  Switch the backup ADI and the GI-106A

2.  Switch the airspeed and altimeter to their "correct" positions to align with your G5

3.  Remove the KT76A, and add an L-3 NGT9000 (or 9000+ if budget permits)

4.  Forget the EDM830, and I'll second the recommendation to add an EDM900 and pull your factory gauges.  This should be able to be mounted in the existing location (in portrait mode) that your EDM700 occupies.

Steve

[gsxrpilot]

I know you're not shopping for an engine monitor... but when you do only spend money on one of the following. 

1. EI MVP-50
2. JPI EDM-900
3. IA G2