Seat rollers.

[jetdriven]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

Note on how small the rollers can get and still work...

They wear until sooner or later they break. Then the seat slides on whatever used to be the axle... this is a bad idea, because the steel axle starts cutting/eroding into the aluminum seat rail.

I learned this before MS. The factory was in a hibernation, and I didn't know Lasar existed yet...

Since the seats come out at annual. This makes a great time to swap out the old wheels a full set at a time.

Best regards,

-a-

Long before the wheels get too small and break, is what happens is the seat gets closer to the rail and when you move forward and back there's this clack clack clack noise from the ends of the pins hitting the holes in the seat rail.... then it wears out the seat rail holes and that's going to get really expensive to repair so the real reason for changing these rollers is to prevent seat rail wear

[MooneyMitch]

45 minutes ago, jetdriven said:

Long before the wheels get too small and break, is what happens is the seat gets closer to the rail and when you move forward and back there's this clack clack clack noise from the ends of the pins hitting the holes in the seat rail.... then it wears out the seat rail holes and that's going to get really expensive to repair so the real reason for changing these rollers is to prevent seat rail wear

Good advice from you and Anthony....... and this is exactly why I'm replacing rollers now.

Are they really only $10 per roller from LASAR......I haven't called them yet.

[Yetti]

About 45 minutes to turn out. Derlin drill pretty well. Derlin does not machine well.   Saws and files and sanders.

[Hank]

4 minutes ago, Yetti said:

About 45 minutes to turn out. Derlin drill pretty well. Derlin does not machine well.   Saws and files and sanders.

If you're going to turn Delrin on your lathe, when it's this small I wouldn't have much more than one roller width plus room for your cutoff tool sticking out of the collet or chuck. The durn stuff will flex out of the way instead of cutting. But it's easy compared to UHMW . . . . that junk won't hardly even mill, it just gooshes out of the way.

Drill as deep as you can first, then measure and cut off a roller. Pull out some more, measure and cut off another roller. Repeat until you need to drill again or have enough made.

[N201MKTurbo]

12 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Long before the wheels get too small and break, is what happens is the seat gets closer to the rail and when you move forward and back there's this clack clack clack noise from the ends of the pins hitting the holes in the seat rail.... then it wears out the seat rail holes and that's going to get really expensive to repair so the real reason for changing these rollers is to prevent seat rail wear

When the rollers wear the seat frame will start to slide on the bottom of the rail before the axel hits the top of the rail.

[Yetti]

30 minutes ago, Hank said:

If you're going to turn Delrin on your lathe, when it's this small I wouldn't have much more than one roller width plus room for your cutoff tool sticking out of the collet or chuck. The durn stuff will flex out of the way instead of cutting. But it's easy compared to UHMW . . . . that junk won't hardly even mill, it just gooshes out of the way.

Drill as deep as you can first, then measure and cut off a roller. Pull out some more, measure and cut off another roller. Repeat until you need to drill again or have enough made.

But I had got it down to .10 in a 4 jaw chuck not going to mess with that. Hack saw and a file was faster.  The carbide cutter were better.  Probably if I upped the speed that would have helped too.

yep drill first measure then cut.

 

[M20F-1968]

OK guys, 

I my past life as a symphonic clarinetist, I used to make clarinets and parts.  This required a 6 foot South Bend lathe and the associated machine tools which I still have.

I can make a bunch of these if there is interest, cheaper than the current suppliers.  Maybe $5-$6 apiece.  Need to find a good material to work with.  I can make them preety much out of anything including the plastics, nylon, even soft metals like aluminum or brass.  Making them out of metal would be a bit more time intensive.

Can someone send me the diameter, thickness and center hole size?

My seats are from a 1998 Ovation.  I would think the diameter should be similar to the originals as the pins only stick down so far.

As for the seat stops, use a cotter pin and bend the long arm up and over the seat rail.

John Breda

[Yetti]

I used the measurements on page 2 of this thread. There is a link for Derlin rod also listed on page 1. Mine came from Graingers via Amazon.   I did not even need to replace mine.  Just made them for the fun of it.

[MooneyMitch]

11 hours ago, M20F-1968 said:

OK guys, 

I my past life as a symphonic clarinetist, I used to make clarinets and parts.  This required a 6 foot South Bend lathe and the associated machine tools which I still have.

I can make a bunch of these if there is interest, cheaper than the current suppliers.  Maybe $5-$6 apiece.  Need to find a good material to work with.  I can make them preety much out of anything including the plastics, nylon, even soft metals like aluminum or brass.  Making them out of metal would be a bit more time intensive.

Can someone send me the diameter, thickness and center hole size?

My seats are from a 1998 Ovation.  I would think the diameter should be similar to the originals as the pins only stick down so far.

As for the seat stops, use a cotter pin and bend the long arm up and over the seat rail.

John Breda

You have my [current big band lead trumpet player] interest John.

[jetdriven]

On 6/6/2017 at 9:10 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

When the rollers wear the seat frame will start to slide on the bottom of the rail before the axel hits the top of the rail.

Youre misreading my statement. When the rollers wear down in the middle, the ends of the seat track pins hit the rail and wear out the holes, when you slide the seat. .

[jetdriven]

On 6/7/2017 at 9:06 AM, M20F-1968 said:

OK guys, 

I my past life as a symphonic clarinetist, I used to make clarinets and parts.  This required a 6 foot South Bend lathe and the associated machine tools which I still have.

I can make a bunch of these if there is interest, cheaper than the current suppliers.  Maybe $5-$6 apiece.  Need to find a good material to work with.  I can make them preety much out of anything including the plastics, nylon, even soft metals like aluminum or brass.  Making them out of metal would be a bit more time intensive.

Can someone send me the diameter, thickness and center hole size?

My seats are from a 1998 Ovation.  I would think the diameter should be similar to the originals as the pins only stick down so far.

As for the seat stops, use a cotter pin and bend the long arm up and over the seat rail.

John Breda

I guess i dont see the point of this thread. the rollers are avaliable for 10$ . Why  are we going through all this trouble to save 32$ a plane?

[Skates97]

2 hours ago, jetdriven said:

I guess i dont see the point of this thread. the rollers are avaliable for 10$ . Why  are we going through all this trouble to save 32$ a plane?

If you have to ask the question, you will never understand the answer... 

[M20F-1968]

The answer is simple, if you make them you can make them out of any material you want (and whatever shape/dimension you want).

I was questioning in my mind if a hard plastic or nylon would be preferred, and maybe even concaving the outside of the roller to confirm to the shape of the rail.

They may roll easier however if the outside is flat given less contact area.

John Breda

[jetdriven]

LASAR rollers are made of Delrin, pretty much the ideal material.  10$ each.  They are flat, however, the rail is convex so there is minimal contact area.  Pretty much an ideal design already.

[Yetti]

well at $10 each... that is $80.00 per plane   A foot of 3/4" derlin rod is $4.05 from Amazon.  45 minutes and I have saved a side tank of AV gas and bought myself 3 more hours of zooming around the sky with a grin on my face.

[PTK]

3 hours ago, jetdriven said:

I guess i dont see the point of this thread. the rollers are avaliable for 10$ . Why  are we going through all this trouble to save 32$ a plane?

32$/plane/32 years is 1$/plane/year. It does add up!

[Mooneymite]

30 minutes ago, PTK said:

32$/plane/32 years is 1$/plane/year. It does add up!

Buying that $3200 "hobbyist" milling lathe has to be justified somehow!  

[Yetti]

1 hour ago, Mooneymite said:

Buying that $3200 "hobbyist" milling lathe has to be justified somehow!  

Luckily the 9" South bend lathe is older than I am and fully depreciated.   Cost = $0    Keeping the skills to use is sharp = $priceless

[carusoam]

Consider for a moment...

A softer plastic or rubber material might adsorb some vibration better than a hard material...

I was thinking how soft wheels on a skateboard are good at this compared to harder wheels.  When buying skateboard wheels they are graded on a hardness scale... the soft wheels also have better grip... 

Best regards,

-a-

[Yetti]

Too soft and you would loose ability to feel the plane and fly by the seat of the pants.   A 29" mtn bike wheel will roll over things better than a 26" wheel.   Urethane wheels might work better, but I don't think you could make them large enough to absorb much vibration.

I though about getting fancy and milling a bearing race into the derlin rod, but some things probably don't need to be over designed

http://www.plastic-products.com/spec.htm

https://www.smooth-on.com/page/durometer-shore-hardness-scale/

[Yetti]

So drilling on the lathe was causing the drill to wonder and then not have a centered hole.   So had to make a jig.

Ya I need camguard for my vise.

 

[Hank]

You absolutely can drill on the lathe! Just use a center drill first. Helps even on the drill press . . . . 

--signed, your friendly neighborhood flying machinist with two Engineering degrees (BSME, MSE), and two pilot certificates (PP-ASEL, IA)

[Yetti]

I center drilled.  The bit would still wander...  may have something to do with the material.   Dimensionally the rod had some variation.  The jig and the milling machine got the holes to a 0.010 accuracy.  To square cut the rod, I just did it on the table saw....  Only two kickbacks.... even with a push stick

 

I even have the larger Morse Taper #1 bits for the lathe.  Which is kind of cool, but then sometimes you have move up to a boring bar.

[Yetti]

[Ragsf15e]

On 8/12/2017 at 4:01 PM, Yetti said:

Did you end up making these?