How Well does a Mooney Handle Rough Air?

[MBDiagMan]

I have been doing a good bit of afternoon Texas flying this week.  After a good bit of it, I got straight out of my rag wing 140 into a 172 and it seemed to handle the air better.  Will Mooney handle afternoon Texas air better than a 172?

[Seanhoya]

I know that the aeronautical engineers will chime in on this one, and of course "wing loading" will come up... But let me answer entirely subjectively simply as a Mooney pilot....

I'm a word, "No." What you get with a Mooney is speed, efficiency, and race-car style handing.  Yes - the control forces are a little heavy in the roll, but a Mooney is definitely a step up from a Cessna in terms of handling.

But you sacrifice stability for this in the design of the Mooney.  You can depart controlled flight in a Mooney in seconds if you aren't paying attention.  I think you would have to try to do the same in a Cessna.

In terms of afternoon Texas chop, just don't try to overcontrol the plane, and all will be good (accept some deviations that you might not on a beautiful day). And tighten down on your seatbelt, lest you wack your head!  

Clear skies...

[Marauder]

I have been doing a good bit of afternoon Texas flying this week.  After a good bit of it, I got straight out of my rag wing 140 into a 172 and it seemed to handle the air better.  Will Mooney handle afternoon Texas air better than a 172?

The wing loading on a Mooney is higher and it will be more stable than a 172. I have 300 or so hours in a 172. The 172 controls are cables and pulleys while the Mooney use control rods. A Mooney going through turbulence is traveling faster and you will feel jolts instead of the wobbling feeling.


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[takair]

I guess it depends what you mean by better.  As Chris said, you are going faster, so that makes a difference.  In older planes like mine, the yellow arc is lower than more modern Mooneys, so you are supposed to slow down more.  I find that I do it naturally, when it gets bumpy the jolts can get uncomfortable at high speeds.  The Mooney wing is one of the stiffer wings out there.  I do find comfort in that, but it does transfer the bumps into the cabin vs. aircraft where the wings flex more.  As you slow down to 172 speeds, it probably has a similar feel, you just stay in the bumps longer.

[1964-M20E]

My non scientific observation the Mooney flies smoother than a 172 or Cherokee types.  I liken it to going across a lake in a flatboat versus a v hull the Mooney being the v hull.   Now I do fly higher in the Mooney than I used to fly in the other types.  That being said fly higher where the air is cooler and most of the time smoother. 

[jlunseth]

Well, the way most of us address that problem is to rise above it, which even NA Mooneys can do.  Sitting down in the bumps at 4 or 8,000 when you can go higher and find smooth air is not what most of us do.  My situation is similar to yours, I fly in the midwest, and especially in the warm summer months we have popcorn cumulus almost every day.  Above the cloud tops it is glass smooth.  The Warriors and Skyhawks I used to fly were working hard to get to 8k.  There are conditions where you can't avoid it, of course, but in the Mooney they are usually brief, like descending from cruise or penetrating a front.  I am not talking about flying into or through a storm front now, but there are lots of frontal conditions that you just have to get through and they almost always involve turbulence.  That's what design maneuvering is for.

[gsengle]

Not sure where others are coming from but it is often remarked that Mooneys are very stable actually, which makes for a good IFR platform compared to say a Bonanza...

Turbulence is def handled better in a Mooney than lighter airplanes.


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[Piloto]

Turbulence perception varies with speed and weight. The heavier the plane the less you will fill the jolts. In heavy turbulence I slow down to about 100kts to minimize the jolts. Speed makes a significant effect specially when the airspeed indicator looks like wiper blades. You can reduce the feeling of it by tightening the shoulder belt. At low speed the jolts change to 0gs momentary events. It is important that you be IFR proficient under partial panel. Even though the wings can withstand over 3gs such is not the case for other components in the plane that can become loose or inoperative.

José

[takair]

8 hours ago, MBDiagMan said:

I have been doing a good bit of afternoon Texas flying this week.  After a good bit of it, I got straight out of my rag wing 140 into a 172 and it seemed to handle the air better.  Will Mooney handle afternoon Texas air better than a 172?

Going to try again.  I would MUCH rather be in a Mooney in turbulence than a 172.  I was overthinking the answer previously.  Regarding going high, that is not always an option, especially given our local NY airspace and the shorter legs we may do in New England.  

[mike20papa]

As a fellow Texas Mooney pilot, the best solution to chop is altitude.  Where the Cessna might eventually get you to smooth air .. the Mooney effortlessly climbs above it.  I regularly hear Cessna pilots complaining about rough air, asking ifit's any better at 5K plus.  The Mooney is faster, so flying thru the chop is no better - perhaps even bumpier.  Also, I find east texas air is usually smoother that west of the colorado river.

[Z00mie]

Having time as an instructor in lots of different aircraft and provided most of my instructing in the Blue Ridge Mountains, my experience is the ride quality of the M20E I own and others I've taught in is  very, very stiff. I believe the airframe to be more rigid which contributes, and much more difficult (than a C-172) to control in moderate turbulence or less. Mine also has the super low speed VA which means you struggle to get in the green arc without an extreme power reduction.. However,  I always try to insure full tanks for rough air, fly slower and do not  fight the aircraft's undulations. MY personal airplane has a tendency to be less stable longitudinally and laterally which is very  obvious looking over the nose in rough conditions. The nose does what a V-tail bonanza's tail does no matter the loading while in turbulence, oscillate. The airframe transmits every air pothole you traverse. Quick and fuel efficient the Mooney is. Ride quality however is not its forte.  

For me the most confidence inspiring piston aircraft to fly in rough air is the traditional tail Bonanzas or Debonairs.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Z00mie

[gsengle]

Maybe a long body which is substantially heavier does better.

 

Having to slow to maneuvering speed which I believe is 127kts in my Ovation is a big slow down from cruise, but that's more a feature of the high cruise speed than anything else. When's the last time you had to slow a 172 down to 127kts?

 

No doubt the Mooney is very stiff tho....

 

In any case my Mooney is way better in winds than my Arrow was...

 

 

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[ArtVandelay]

The short answer is the Mooney will handle it better than it's captain ‍️.

[Yetti]

The mooney handles Texas better.  Gusty spring weather much better.  It is better in a gusty cross wind for the same reason it is fast.  There is not as much aluminum to get pushed around by the gust.  

My wife would get airsick on finals in the 172.  Has not yet in the mooney.

Thick wing vs slim wing.

Took the mother in law for her birthday present yesterday.  kind of gusty but no airsick and she had a great time.  

Getting 172 to 500 feet on a Texas summer day is a chore.

Easy with the mooney

 

[Mooneymite]

Ask not how the plane handles rough air....ask how your wife handles rough air.   

[Joe Zuffoletto]

I think the Acclaim rides pretty rough in turbulence. Lots of abrupt, sharp jolts. The spar runs right under your arse, which seems to amplify the effect. Slowing down obviously helps, but it's still a rough ride. My wife hates it.

I recently took a pilot friend for a ride because he was looking to upgrade from his Piper Arrow and had never ridden in a Mooney. We went up on a bumpy day in Phoenix. He didn't like the way my Mooney rode in the bumps at all compared to his Arrow and he ended up buying a share of a Saratoga.

[M016576]

One man's light chop is another's continuous moderate....

 

the mooney is heavy on the controls and has neutral lateral and longitudinal stability.  It has positive directional stability- particularly at high airspeeds.  It is stable- which means, not very maneuverable.  That makes for a very nice, stable IFR platform.

[Mooneymite]

The Mooney's "tail waggle" is noticeably better in turbulence than a Bonanaza's unless equipped with a yaw damper.  The old PC seems to be pretty good at keeping the wings level without being abrupt.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I bought my Ovation after owning a Piper Mirage. I was surprised how much more yawing motion I felt in the Mooney compared to the Mirage at same indicated airspeed.  

To further smooth the ride in the Mirage the KFC200 included yaw damper. There is no yaw damper available in the KFC225 as certified in the M20R.  

After i while I got used to the yaw wagging.  

 

[201er]

When I put 600lbs of fuel in the wings, the ride is especially solid. You don't realize how bumpy it is flying in a Cessna or Cherokee until you get spoiled in a Mooney.

[gsengle]

I bought my Ovation after owning a Piper Mirage. I was surprised how much more yawing motion I felt in the Mooney compared to the Mirage at same indicated airspeed.  
To further smooth the ride in the Mirage the KFC200 included yaw damper. There is no yaw damper available in the KFC225 as certified in the M20R.  
After i while I got used to the yaw wagging.  
 

Ever been in a V tailed Bo? :-o


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[gsengle]

I think the Acclaim rides pretty rough in turbulence. Lots of abrupt, sharp jolts. The spar runs right under your arse, which seems to amplify the effect. Slowing down obviously helps, but it's still a rough ride. My wife hates it.
I recently took a pilot friend for a ride because he was looking to upgrade from his Piper Arrow and had never ridden in a Mooney. We went up on a bumpy day in Phoenix. He didn't like the way my Mooney rode in the bumps at all compared to his Arrow and he ended up buying a share of a Saratoga.

If you slowed to Arrow speeds then you'd have a valid comparison...


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[gsxrpilot]

I find the more hours I have in the Mooney's, the more my definition of turbulence changes. The level of turbulence that would get me to slow down in a Cessna/Piper is much less then the level that gets me to slow down the Mooney. The Mooney wing is just so much stronger than any other light piston single, it gives you confidence to power through. I find that it has to be very rough for me to think about slowing down to Va.  Most of the time I can just power through at max cruise speed. And usually, I'm just in the climb, powering through to smoother air above.

[Smiles201]

One way that might make it smoother is to shift weight forward, slide your seats forward and adjust trim?

[bonal]

Just an observation that might be relevant to the original post back when we flew the 150 my wife would get very nervous in even light turbulence but flying the Mooney she is fine even in moderate turbulence. When I asked she said it just feels stronger more solid in the Mooney. Also I know it's more psychological but I think she is more assured being on top of the wing as opposed to suspended under it. As for speed if it's light chop I keep it just a touch into the yellow which is close to normal cruise. But in those long descents when at the near Vne you really need to be ready to slow it down