Mooney crash, pilot walks away

[Marauder]

I saw 35 on the ground and averaged 4-9 in the air. Should I be concerned?


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I think the 35 probably was some exhaust that you picked up on the ground. I have been in 3 Mooneys with this detector and they are all showing between 5 and 10 in flight. I think this may be the norm.


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[M20kflyer99]

Since we're posting. My new meter showed 15ppm during startup and taxi. 12 climb out and 3-9 during cruise. Went to the lower level with heat and vent on.

 

[tigers2007]

Good news is that the sensor works and I could hear it beeping at me in flight. 

Was the beeping very obvious or just noticeable?

Are you able to change the alert threshold to a higher number?


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[Skates97]

18 minutes ago, tigers2007 said:

Was the beeping very obvious or just noticeable?

Are you able to change the alert threshold to a higher number?
 

 

I would put it in the category of noticeable, not obvious. I don't know if it can be adjusted to a higher number and the instructions are out at the hangar. One of the other guys that has it might be able to tell you if you can adjust the alert threshold.

I'm sure someone else has already posted it here, but I looked up what the permissible levels of CO are. From what I have read until you get prolonged exposure above 70ppm you will likely not notice any symptoms. Iowa State University has a great page on the different levels of CO that are permissible and also their effects.

https://www.abe.iastate.edu/extension-and-outreach/carbon-monoxide-concentrations-table-aen-172/

FYI, measured tailpipe exhaust concentration from a warm carbureted gasoline engine without a catalytic converter is 35,000 ppm!

[Alain B]

4 hours ago, Brandontwalker said:

I saw 35 on the ground and averaged 4-9 in the air. Should I be concerned?


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The FAA state that 50 ppm is the maximum admissible per FAR.  23.831 . 

[tigers2007]

Just ordered mine. $103.20 shipped for the middle model. Their mobile web site (iOS Safari browser) wouldn't let me complete the order so I had to use a desktop.


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[Brandontwalker]

Was the beeping very obvious or just noticeable?

Are you able to change the alert threshold to a higher number?


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I didn't hear the beeping, but attention was drawn to the flashing red lights.


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[slowflyin]

I'm 8-10 on the ground - sometimes up to 15 depending on the prevailing wind during the run-up and 0 in cruise.

[Marauder]

I am wonder if placement of these unit has an affect on the readings.


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[Skates97]

1 minute ago, Marauder said:

I am wonder if placement of these unit has an affect on the readings.


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Possibly, I have mine just to the right of the radio stack and above the transponder. I took the clip off the back and just used a couple strips of 3M Velcro.

[Brandontwalker]

If it helps, mine is mounted to the nose wheel well just to the right of the trim indicator. 

[M20kflyer99]

Mounted my meter with some Velcro after looking at the other posts.

Had an interesting experience with it going off today


The alarm went off, with 46ppm, when I pulled the power and did a high rate of descent approach into KTEX. As soon as I reduced the rate and added power the alarm went away with everything normalizing I'm wondering if the fuselage descending that fast forced some exhaust into the cabin through the vents

[Skates97]

1 minute ago, M20kflyer99 said:

Mounted my meter with some Velcro after looking at the other posts.

Had an interesting experience with it going off today


The alarm went off, with 46ppm, when I pulled the power and did a high rate of descent approach into KTEX. As soon as I reduced the rate and added power the alarm went away with everything normalizing I'm wondering if the fuselage descending that fast forced some exhaust into the cabin through the vents

 

I had this same thing happen. I had the vents closed at the time, opened the vents and reduced descent rate and levels dropped back down. The boot around the flap/aileron rods was loose and had slid up, leaving a gap. I fixed that and haven't seen it occur again. 

[EricJ]

21 hours ago, M20kflyer99 said:

The alarm went off, with 46ppm, when I pulled the power and did a high rate of descent approach into KTEX. As soon as I reduced the rate and added power the alarm went away with everything normalizing I'm wondering if the fuselage descending that fast forced some exhaust into the cabin through the vents

 

Wildhorses and I both race cars with the same national organization, which doesn't allow exhausts that open before the driver position unless the driver wears a respirator (which nobody wants to do, and basically nobody does, so basically everybody's exhausts dump behind the driver position).   From that perspective, being used to that rule, it does seem a little weird that it is basic SOP for GA airplanes to dump the exhaust almost universally in front of the cabin space, often in front of the firewall.   As much as the floor and firewall are essentially anything but hermetically sealed, and there are even cabin ventilation inlets in wing leading edges well behind exhaust dumps (I'm thinking particularly of older Arrows that dump the exhaust nearly under the prop), the above experience doesn't surprise me at all.    That said, it's been this way almost since airplanes were invented, so maybe it's not that bad, but it does make you think.

With the CO meters getting more common in GA cabins (and lets hope this trend continues), maybe enough experimentation might lead to some simple procedures or practices to minimize this, too.

[DanM20C]

Today is the one year anniversary of my fateful flight.  I'm typing this at 8:10pm, exactly one year ago I was slumped over unconscious, strapped into a busted up airplane in a cold dark field.  It's amazing the difference a year makes.  I really miss my C, it was a fantastic little airplane that treated us well.  Now I own a 231.  It is in desperate need of an avionics upgrade but it has been an impressive traveling machine so far.  It delivered Deanna and I to the Mooney Summit safely and efficiently, averaging 176kts for the round trip.  The Summit was a wonderful experience!  Thanks @mike_elliott and @rocketman!

For those that are local to the Twin Cities that didn't make it to the Summit to hear me present my story.  You get a second chance!  I'll be presenting at the "Saturday Seminars" at Modern Avionics on the field @ KFMC.  March 10th, 9am.

I will also be speaking to EAA Chapter 1229 @ Fleming Field on Tuesday Feb 20th, 7pm.

Everyone else, please keep CO in the hanger talk around your airports.  Digital detectors can make CO crashes a thing of the past.  We just need to get the word out. 

The Sensorcon discount still is in effect.

Code: aircraft2017

Cheers,

Dan

 

[aviatoreb]

23 minutes ago, DanM20C said:

Today is the one year anniversary of my fateful flight.  I'm typing this at 8:10pm, exactly one year ago I was slumped over unconscious, strapped into a busted up airplane in a cold dark field.  It's amazing the difference a year makes.  I really miss my C, it was a fantastic little airplane that treated us well.  Now I own a 231.  It is in desperate need of an avionics upgrade but it has been an impressive traveling machine so far.  It delivered Deanna and I to the Mooney Summit safely and efficiently, averaging 176kts for the round trip.  The Summit was a wonderful experience!  Thanks @mike_elliott and @rocketman!

For those that are local to the Twin Cities that didn't make it to the Summit to hear me present my story.  You get a second chance!  I'll be presenting at the "Saturday Seminars" at Modern Avionics on the field @ KFMC.  March 10th, 9am.

I will also be speaking to EAA Chapter 1229 @ Fleming Field on Tuesday Feb 20th, 7pm.

Everyone else, please keep CO in the hanger talk around your airports.  Digital detectors can make CO crashes a thing of the past.  We just need to get the word out. 

The Sensorcon discount still is in effect.

Code: aircraft2017

Cheers,

Dan

 

Welcome to next year good buddy!!!

[carusoam]

Happy anniversary Dan, glad you are here to share and celebrate it!

Thanks for staying on the soapbox.  You’re going to save a lot of pilot’s bacon from your experience.  

Send another thank you note to the homeowner who’s door you knocked on.

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

41 minutes ago, DanM20C said:

For those that are local to the Twin Cities that didn't make it to the Summit to hear me present my story.  You get a second chance!  I'll be presenting at the "Saturday Seminars" at Modern Avionics on the field @ KFMC.  March 10th, 9am.

I will also be speaking to EAA Chapter 1229 @ Fleming Field on Tuesday Feb 20th, 7pm.

Everyone else, please keep CO in the hanger talk around your airports.  Digital detectors can make CO crashes a thing of the past.  We just need to get the word out. 

The Sensorcon discount still is in effect.

Code: aircraft2017

Cheers,

Dan

 

Amazing story! Thank you, Dan, for spreading the word. I'm finding mkre uses for my Sensorcon unit, having checked in my truck and the fireplace. 

If anyone is near where Dan will be speaking, please attend!

[DanM20C]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Send another thank you note to the homeowner who’s door you knocked on.

She texted me tonight at the exact time I pounded on her window last year. She and her husband are fantastic people.  

A few months ago Deanna and I took the kids and visited them for an afternoon. It was my first time back, and the only time in the daylight. It was humbling to see. My airplane literally impacted the only spot suitable for survival. It is very hilly, not a place I would pick to land.

Cheers,

Dan

[gsxrpilot]

I've been looking for a good place for my SensorCon in my M20K. Last week on the way to Vegas with not much to do for five hours at 12K, I discovered that the clip on the back of the SensorCon is a perfect match for a standard GoPro mount. 

If I want to read the number, I have to take it in my hand, but if the alarm goes off, it's right by my ear.

Thanks Dan, for turning us all on to these units.

[kpaul]

7 hours ago, gsxrpilot said:

I've been looking for a good place for my SensorCon in my M20K.

Paul, I assume you are looking for a non-permanent option for your panel without and drilling or damage?  

I removed the clip and use a 3M command strip on the back to attach it to my panel.  The benefit is that it is easy to read but it still removes easily without any damage or marks.  I have found in my plane that unless the door is open I run 0 or 1.  However taxiing in formation I have had the alarm sound.  I wear ANR headsets and had no problems hearing the alarm.  I like being able to add the sensor to my usual scan, hopefully I will detect a negative trend in the numbers long before it alarms.

[mike_elliott]

Happy anniversary Dan. Because of  your evangelism about your incident, I know of at least one "save" and I am sure there are more. Well done, sir!

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, kpaul said:

Paul, I assume you are looking for a non-permanent option for your panel without and drilling or damage?  

I removed the clip and use a 3M command strip on the back to attach it to my panel.  The benefit is that it is easy to read but it still removes easily without any damage or marks.  I have found in my plane that unless the door is open I run 0 or 1.  However taxiing in formation I have had the alarm sound.  I wear ANR headsets and had no problems hearing the alarm.  I like being able to add the sensor to my usual scan, hopefully I will detect a negative trend in the numbers long before it alarms.

Correct. And I've looked for a good place on the panel for it but just hadn't found any place I really liked. This is temporary for sure, but at least it's out and on all the time.

[kpaul]

5 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

but at least it's out and on all the time.

Yes, I never fly without it on, all thanks to @DanM20Cand his story.  

[cnoe]

Today is the one year anniversary of my fateful flight.  I'm typing this at 8:10pm, exactly one year ago I was slumped over unconscious, strapped into a busted up airplane in a cold dark field.  It's amazing the difference a year makes.  I really miss my C, it was a fantastic little airplane that treated us well.  Now I own a 231.  It is in desperate need of an avionics upgrade but it has been an impressive traveling machine so far.  It delivered Deanna and I to the Mooney Summit safely and efficiently, averaging 176kts for the round trip.  The Summit was a wonderful experience!  Thanks [mention=11242]mike_elliott[/mention] and [mention=8447]rocketman[/mention]!
For those that are local to the Twin Cities that didn't make it to the Summit to hear me present my story.  You get a second chance!  I'll be presenting at the "Saturday Seminars" at Modern Avionics on the field @ KFMC.  March 10th, 9am.
I will also be speaking to EAA Chapter 1229 @ Fleming Field on Tuesday Feb 20th, 7pm.
Everyone else, please keep CO in the hanger talk around your airports.  Digital detectors can make CO crashes a thing of the past.  We just need to get the word out. 
The Sensorcon discount still is in effect.
Code: aircraft2017
Cheers,
Dan
 

Thank you again Dan! Your experience (and your willingness to share it) has undoubtedly made flying a safer proposition for many many pilots. I purchased a Sensorcon immediately after your accident, well before the “discount” was negotiated. And I use it on every flight. I wonder if Sensorcon would divulge exactly how many have taken advantage of the offer; that would be cool to know.

Cnoe


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