Adding External Power Receptacle

[Bob_Belville]

I'd like to add a external power receptacle like this to my 12V '66E. I went on a stroll through the big hangar @ KMRN this afternoon and saw several planes with this receptacle installed including a Mooney, a Mod Squad 261 Thunderbird that's based here. Anyone here installed one? I need a source for a hinged cover. (Mooney has 8 pages of retrofit kits listed under the "support" tab but no joy on what I need.)

Other comments and advise welcome. I'm hoping to be able to charge battery, run avionics, etc. Lynn will have to tell me what paperwork is required which is where a kit might have helped.

 

[KSMooniac]

There is a bunch of stuff that goes along with that receptacle...there are relays, big wires, maybe a different battery box cover, etc. I pulled mine from my salvage J and suspect that is the most economical route if you can find a "kit" in a salvage yard. You might look at a newer model parts catalog for a better look at all of the required bits.

Paperwork should be trivial if you gather all of those Mooney parts and install it just like the factory did. I suspect most IA's would call it a minor mod and just make a logbook entry (and update w&.

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[Hank]

Bob, you may find that battery location is a problem. Our short planes have the battery on the firewall; the Fs and later have it in the avionics bay. Every plane I've seen, all brands, with this type of charging receptacle have it at or near the back of the cockpit.

Let us know what you find out, there are times it would sure be convenient to plug in like this.

[Brandontwalker]

My Cessna 172N had the Receptacle mounted at the firewall. Made me nervous when the line guys had to disconnect the APU with the engine running. Never seen a receptacle at this location on a Mooney, but assume it is possible.


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[Bob_Belville]

My battery, all Es(?), is in the back. Mounting the receptacle practically on the battery box with the access cover in the access door would be easy.

[kpaul]

I have one on mine, but it is a F so the battery is in the back and located immediately behind the access door.  I realized I do not have a good picture, but included what I could find.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, kpaul said:

I have one on mine, but it is a F so the battery is in the back and located immediately behind the access door.  I realized I do not have a good picture, but included what I could find.

Yes, my battery is right there as well and the 12V 261 I looked at this afternoon is the same. I'll be able to inspect how the receptacle is mounted and what components are between the posts and the battery terminals. 

[cnoe]

14 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

I'd like to add a external power receptacle like this to my 12V '66E. I went on a stroll through the big hangar @ KMRN this afternoon and saw several planes with this receptacle installed including a Mooney, a Mod Squad 261 Thunderbird that's based here. Anyone here installed one? I need a source for a hinged cover. (Mooney has 8 pages of retrofit kits listed under the "support" tab but no joy on what I need.)

Other comments and advise welcome. I'm hoping to be able to charge battery, run avionics, etc. Lynn will have to tell me what paperwork is required which is where a kit might have helped.

If it's any help Bob here's what the setup looks like on my J. I took these pics while repairing my battery box back when I swapped out the Gill for a Concorde. Note that the bracket which holds the receptacle is riveted onto the top of the battery box and the whole thing has its own relay mounted on the box as well.

 

[mike_elliott]

I would like to buy a set of "jumper cables" with this female plug end if anyone has such a set.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, mike_elliott said:

I would like to buy a set of "jumper cables" with this female plug end if anyone has such a set.

I started this thread when I found a plug in my hangar that I had bought many years ago but never got around to using.

Mike, have you seen this adapter @ Aircraft Spruce that works with standard jumper cables?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/plugnjump.php 

 

[Bob_Belville]

36 minutes ago, cnoe said:

If it's any help Bob here's what the setup looks like on my J. I took these pics while repairing my battery box back when I swapped out the Gill for a Concorde. Note that the bracket which holds the receptacle is riveted onto the top of the battery box and the whole thing has its own relay mounted on the box as well.

Thanks Chuck, that helps. I wonder if the spring pin that I think goes in the 3rd hole of the plug going to the relay is always needed. The instructions on the plug I have seems to indicate that's for (some?) Cessnas. I might need to get with my hangar neighbor Lee Layton, the EE. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Bennett]

I have one of these "universal" plugs with the lugs for jumper cables. I carry it in my airplane just in case I do something stupid like leaving the master switch on, or the overhead lights. Then anyone with automotive jumper cables can provide starting power.

Be careful of the small door that covers the receptacle. An FBO once bent the door (oxygen fill with an almost identical door) and it would never close flush again.


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[Bob_Belville]

Can someone knowledgeable describe the details of the circuit involved?

In Chuck's plane there a solenoid in the (ground? positive?) circuit. I suppose it is normally open and is closed when the external plug is inserted. Perhaps it is select-able depending upon the task? See below. What does that mean for battery and ship power? Is current only going to the battery from the external charger?

ISTM there are 3 potential applications for the set up - 1) run avionics w/o running down battery, 2) charge battery, 3) jump start plane. 

Will all of these work with the same setup? Is there any risk to the battery? The avionics, etc.?

[mooniac15u]

1 minute ago, Bob_Belville said:

Can someone knowledgeable describe the details of the circuit involved?

In Chuck's plane there a solenoid in the (ground? positive?) circuit. I suppose it is normally open and is closed when the external plug is inserted. Perhaps it is select-able depending upon the task? See below. What does that mean for battery and ship power? Is current only going to the battery from the external charger?

ISTM there are 3 potential applications for the set up - 1) run avionics w/o running down battery, 2) charge battery, 3) jump start plane. 

Will all of these work with the same setup? Is there any risk to the battery? The avionics, etc.?

The third pin powers a solenoid that connects the positive pin to the battery.  Without that solenoid you would always have a hot pin behind that little door which wouldn't be very safe.

Since the solenoid draws power when the external plug is connected it isn't a very practical way to charge your battery.  The charger will be unable to sense the charge status of the battery because there will be a constant draw from the solenoid.

[mooniac15u]

The other aspect of trying to charge via the external plug is that most chargers won't supply any power unless they can detect that they are hooked to a battery.  With the solenoid in the circuit it won't detect the battery and won't supply the power needed to activate the solenoid.  The couple of times that I attached a charger to the external port I had to use one that has a jumpstart mode to activate the solenoid and then I could switch it to charge mode.

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, mooniac15u said:

The third pin powers a solenoid that connects the positive pin to the battery.  Without that solenoid you would always have a hot pin behind that little door which wouldn't be very safe.

Since the solenoid draws power when the external plug is connected it isn't a very practical way to charge your battery.  The charger will be unable to sense the charge status of the battery because there will be a constant draw from the solenoid.

Sounds like it would work best for two functions: jump start, provide aux power to run avionics. 

I wonder If the latter is safe since the avionics shop has elaborate (expensive) aux power units which they hook up to work on avionics. There must be other issues and concerns re protecting sensitive electronics. 

[mike_elliott]

1 hour ago, Bob_Belville said:

I started this thread when I found a plug in my hangar that I had bought many years ago but never got around to using.

Mike, have you seen this adapter @ Aircraft Spruce that works with standard jumper cables?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/elpages/plugnjump.php 

 

I have now, Bob, thanks. Carrying one of these is a waste of useful load on a 28V system, but would be great on a 12V. I am building a "portable" jump starter/APU out of my "old" Gill 28V batteries that I can also use to fire G1000 equipped Mooney avionics for instruction when I have transition students. This would work for it, but Ill get the less expensive plug and build a set of cables. AS has a set already made, but 1.5 amu's is a bit price ambitious for my needs.

[Bob_Belville]

DMax advises that Mooney does have a kit for adding an external power receptacle. It isn't listed under retrofit kits on their website. He says it's "pricey" but he will get me more info.

[mooniac15u]

15 hours ago, Hank said:

Bob, you may find that battery location is a problem. Our short planes have the battery on the firewall; the Fs and later have it in the avionics bay. Every plane I've seen, all brands, with this type of charging receptacle have it at or near the back of the cockpit.

Let us know what you find out, there are times it would sure be convenient to plug in like this.

FWIW, my 1963 M20D had an external power receptacle in the front.  I don't know if it was original or added later.  It was on the left side of the cowl below the battery access door.  The solenoid was mounted on the firewall near the battery.  You can see the access door in this photo.

[Bob_Belville]

As I pointed out to the C guy Hank, I don't think E models have batteries mounted on the firewall as the C models which do. I suppose the heavier IO360 was the reason the battery was moved to the back but I don't know that.

[mpg]

2 hours ago, cnoe said:

If it's any help Bob here's what the setup looks like on my J. I took these pics while repairing my battery box back when I swapped out the Gill for a Concorde. Note that the bracket which holds the receptacle is riveted onto the top of the battery box and the whole thing has its own relay mounted on the box as well.

 

that doesnt even look like decent 1930s tractor technology,,,   I think it looks like a BS grinder way to get a jump start.

I think it is a clusterfjck!

But I gotta ask, where are the cables from the "Battery", in the box, that go to you plane electric system?

ok I think they are in the plane and you will install the box, open it, and hook them up,,,  doh!

[Bob_Belville]

Just now, mpg said:

that doesnt even look like decent 1930s tractor technology,,,   I think it looks like a BS grinder way to get a jump start.

I think it is a clusterfjck!

But I gotta ask, where are the cables from the "Battery", in the box, that go to you plane electric system?

ok I think they are in the plane and you will install the box, open it, and hook them up,,,  doh!

I've noticed that battery boxes take a lot of abuse in 50 years. The lid looks a lot rougher than the bracket, etc. But I appreciate Chuck posting the pic so please don't mock his beautiful 201!

[DaV8or]

I suppose if you install this external plug, the access cover is then tethered to the airplane and you would have to unbolt the cables to get it completely out of the way? Are the cables typically pretty long to allow the cover to be pushed aside, or short so you have unbolt if you want to do any work in there?

[mooniac15u]

Just now, DaV8or said:

I suppose if you install this external plug, the access cover is then tethered to the airplane and you would have to unbolt the cables to get it completely out of the way? Are the cables typically pretty long to allow the cover to be pushed aside, or short so you have unbolt if you want to do any work in there?

The external receptacle is not attached to the access door. They are just mounted so that they align. 

[DaV8or]

Just now, mooniac15u said:

The external receptacle is not attached to the access door. They are just mounted so that they align. 

Oh, right. Duh! Makes sense now, thanks. I have thought about adding this feature to my plane, but then I remind myself of how often I have a dead battery. Pretty much never.