Instrument Rating

[Hank]

1 minute ago, kpaul said:

Now that is a new one for me.  You must have spent some time in Hawaii.

Doggone apple! I corrected "slly" to "ally," didn't see that and it wasn't marked anymore . . .

[rbridges]

On 11/11/2016 at 0:21 PM, Htwjr said:

Just got my instrument rating this morning.  I have had my ppl and the mooney for 3 years and I have really learned a lot from this forum that no doubt helped with the ir.  I wanted to say thanks to everyone here for the advice.   I will be making a donation to the site but keep in mind that most of my money lately has been going to the plane, gas and instructors.  Thanks

congrats on the rating.  Getting the mooney convinced me to get mine.  We travel a lot more than we did in the past since I'm not as worried about being stuck.  As far as the donation, I gave a few bucks last year.  The help I get from this website has been invaluable; they guys on here go out of their way to help.  It's saved me tons of $$ with issues that I would have paid someone else to diagnose or troubleshoot. 

[ArtVandelay]

1 hour ago, peevee said:

Man, I wouldn't even consider a cross country vfr. Being on an ifr plan makes everything so much easier. 

Except:

Ive waited a good 15 minutes for an IFR clearance, VFR take off when ready.

Sometimes when turbulence is predicted it's nice to have freedom to change altitudes searching for smooth air.

Sometimes I just don't feel like talking...

 But I only do it when no chance of weather.

[gsxrpilot]

7 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

Except:

Ive waited a good 15 minutes for an IFR clearance, VFR take off when ready.

Sometimes when turbulence is predicted it's nice to have freedom to change altitudes searching for smooth air.

Sometimes I just don't feel like talking...

 But I only do it when no chance of weather.

File IFR and get the best of both worlds. You don't have to use it. I'll put one on file for the trip and then launch VFR. I can stay VFR, but if at anytime I want/need/encounter IMC, I can raise ATC and open the IFR flight plan. It's just as easy to cancel in the air once it's no longer needed or convenient.

I was on an IFR flight plan and was about to get routed all the way around the Houston Bravo. By that point I really didn't need it for weather any longer, so just canceled and went right over the top of the Bravo direct my destination.

It's a nice feature to have and up to me when to use it.

[ArtVandelay]

7 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

File IFR and get the best of both worlds. You don't have to use it. I'll put one on file for the trip and then launch VFR. I can stay VFR, but if at anytime I want/need/encounter IMC, I can raise ATC and open the IFR flight plan. It's just as easy to cancel in the air once it's no longer needed or convenient.

I'm not sure I understand...

You file a flightplan for DFW->SFO, but you don't pick up clearance while on the ground ...

take off VFR, then as you fly over Albuquerque you call ATC to pickup your clearance? Aren't they going to ask where you've been?

[gsxrpilot]

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

I'm not sure I understand...

You file a flightplan for DFW->SFO, but you don't pick up clearance while on the ground ...

take off VFR, then as you fly over Albuquerque you call ATC to pickup your clearance? Aren't they going to ask where you've been?

DFW->SFO isn't a good example as it's Bravo to Bravo.

Here's one I regularly do...   KHYI->KDRO  HYI has a tower but DRO doesn't but does have commercial scheduled traffic such as United and American.  I often launch out of HYI VFR. Later somewhere over west texas I decide I'm going to need to climb through some clouds to get over the mountains. Call up Center and ask for IFR, I also tell them I have a flight plan on file as long as it's within two hours of my departure.  They usually find it and just assign me a squawk, and altitude. If they don't find the flight plan, then they'll just ask for souls on board, fuel, etc. and off we go.  Easy.

[peevee]

3 hours ago, teejayevans said:

Except:

Ive waited a good 15 minutes for an IFR clearance, VFR take off when ready.

Sometimes when turbulence is predicted it's nice to have freedom to change altitudes searching for smooth air.

Sometimes I just don't feel like talking...

 But I only do it when no chance of weather.

You're worried about a 15 minute hold for release? Small price to pay to avoid sua and tfrs in unfamiliar areas. 

[peevee]

1 hour ago, gsxrpilot said:

DFW->SFO isn't a good example as it's Bravo to Bravo.

Here's one I regularly do...   KHYI->KDRO  HYI has a tower but DRO doesn't but does have commercial scheduled traffic such as United and American.  I often launch out of HYI VFR. Later somewhere over west texas I decide I'm going to need to climb through some clouds to get over the mountains. Call up Center and ask for IFR, I also tell them I have a flight plan on file as long as it's within two hours of my departure.  They usually find it and just assign me a squawk, and altitude. If they don't find the flight plan, then they'll just ask for souls on board, fuel, etc. and off we go.  Easy.

Dro also has a wam site and they can see you and talk to you on the ground. 

You could go to Animas air park too, I don't think k it's private. Haven't been myself. 

[peevee]

3 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I'm not sure I understand...

You file a flightplan for DFW->SFO, but you don't pick up clearance while on the ground ...

take off VFR, then as you fly over Albuquerque you call ATC to pickup your clearance? Aren't they going to ask where you've been?

No. Once they look for a strip on you they assign a beacon and you tag up, they don't care where you came from. 

[peevee]

4 hours ago, Hank said:

It's not hard. Your preflight weather check will tell you all you need to know about MOAs and other SUA. Then get in the plane and go if the weather is good enough. I took my wife 1320 nm each way, from WV to WY and back, the year after I bought my Mooney. Started Instrument training a year later, completely unrelated to our flycation. Lots of flightseeing and ground-bound sightseeing both ways--it was a great trip!

Alohabetically, WV --> WY is pretty small, but it's a pretty far distance on a map . . .

Except a lot of sua notams come out 2 hours before it goes eligible . On a 4 hour flight it's very easy to miss. 

 

In the summer when wildfires can pop up so can tfrs. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by peevee

[ArtVandelay]

12 minutes ago, peevee said:

You're worried about a 15 minute hold for release? Small price to pay to avoid sua and tfrs in unfamiliar areas. 

But you get that with flight following?

[peevee]

4 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

But you get that with flight following?

You do, workload permitting. Most pilots greatly over estimate the service being provided with vfr ff

 

It's less work to just get the clearance o  the ground than ask for flight following. Lol

Edited December 11, 2016 by peevee

[gsxrpilot]

If I'm launching in a congested area or in a very unfamiliar area with terrain issues, then I'll always wait for a proper release. But if I'm comfortable to launch VFR and am just expecting to need the IFR down the road aways, I'll pick it up later in the air.  You can always get a pop up clearance in the air without filing anything prior, but it's usually quicker and easier for ATC if you've already filed. That way they've already got the form filled out on you and only need squawk, altitude, time, etc.

I'm pretty comfortable getting my TFR's, latest weather, etc from ForeFlight. I can't remember the last time I called for a briefing.

[Bob_Belville]

7 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

If I'm launching in a congested area or in a very unfamiliar area with terrain issues, then I'll always wait for a proper release. But if I'm comfortable to launch VFR and am just expecting to need the IFR down the road aways, I'll pick it up later in the air.  You can always get a pop up clearance in the air without filing anything prior, but it's usually quicker and easier for ATC if you've already filed. That way they've already got the form filled out on you and only need squawk, altitude, time, etc.

I'm pretty comfortable getting my TFR's, latest weather, etc from ForeFlight. I can't remember the last time I called for a briefing.

My experience exactly. I think "clearance delivery" has to relatively inflexible compared to real time controllers. Onerous and circuitous routing can be negotiated much easier while talking to center or approach guys/gals since they know exactly where you are and how fast you're moving whereas clearance has to deal with a block of time and space.  

[peevee]

2 minutes ago, Bob_Belville said:

My experience exactly. I think "clearance delivery" has to relatively inflexible compared to real time controllers. Onerous and circuitous routing can be negotiated much easier while talking to center or approach guys/gals since they know exactly where you are and how fast you're moving whereas clearance has to deal with a block of time and space.  

Clearance just spits out what the computer prints on the strip. They don't know where a lot of those fixes are. They can edit but as I understand it's pretty cumbersome to do so and they usually won't. They can call center though and ask center to make changes. 

Edited December 11, 2016 by peevee

[bradp]

One of the reasons I don't call for briefings anymore is that the quality of the briefers is in decline. I used to be able to get the occasional briefer who knew the area well, was experienced, and was willing to discuss the flight planning with me. Since Lock mart I seem to get mostly lowest common denominator know almost nothings from a different region entirely. It's a self fulfilling prophecy - quality declines, the need in turn declines, pushing the need down further.


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[mccdeuce]

10 hours ago, teejayevans said:

I'm not sure I understand...

You file a flightplan for DFW->SFO, but you don't pick up clearance while on the ground ...

take off VFR, then as you fly over Albuquerque you call ATC to pickup your clearance? Aren't they going to ask where you've been?

I regularly do something similar. 

Today I filed IFR. Took off VFR picked up Flight Following for the first part and when the weather started to suck activated IFR flight plan with clearance. 

[mccdeuce]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

One of the reasons I don't call for briefings anymore is that the quality of the briefers is in decline. 

I have been quite happy with the foreflight WX brief as well as the ability to file VFR get wx brief and activate and close VFR flight plans. 

[cnoe]

When/where to pick up a clearance has a lot to do with your airspace. I spent 3 hours with senior controllers in our Bravo TRACON last Tuesday on a tour/Q&A. Launching here they greatly prefer you to pick up your clearance on the ground. Outside their airspace not so much. After seeing their internal departure/arrival corridors I now understand why. Departing D/E airspace I certainly understand the preference for departing VFR. Last time I departed KDRO we waited a full 20 minutes for release while a friggin' Embraer flew an entire procedure. We needed the clearance to get on top legally. Once you get the clearance it's sorta hard to say "nevermind, I'm departing VFR" while waiting for your release.


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[Danb]

On 12/11/2016 at 3:47 AM, M20Doc said:

I don't imagine that the FAA issues two instrument ratings IFR "light" and IFR "hard" do they?  They don't do it in Canada.  

Some form of back up attitude gyro makes the most sense.

Clarence

Clarence no but that's actually a great idea, light to bust through clouds and mvfr at field level, your on to something 

[N6758N]

On 12/11/2016 at 2:27 PM, Bob_Belville said:

My experience exactly. I think "clearance delivery" has to relatively inflexible compared to real time controllers. Onerous and circuitous routing can be negotiated much easier while talking to center or approach guys/gals since they know exactly where you are and how fast you're moving whereas clearance has to deal with a block of time and space.  

 

On 12/11/2016 at 11:47 AM, gsxrpilot said:

DFW->SFO isn't a good example as it's Bravo to Bravo.

Here's one I regularly do...   KHYI->KDRO  HYI has a tower but DRO doesn't but does have commercial scheduled traffic such as United and American.  I often launch out of HYI VFR. Later somewhere over west texas I decide I'm going to need to climb through some clouds to get over the mountains. Call up Center and ask for IFR, I also tell them I have a flight plan on file as long as it's within two hours of my departure.  They usually find it and just assign me a squawk, and altitude. If they don't find the flight plan, then they'll just ask for souls on board, fuel, etc. and off we go.  Easy.

Based on my limited experience flying IFR here in the Northeast, this is a big no no. My instructor drilled it into my head to never try and pick up a clearance in the air unless its an emergency. I have heard ATC on more than one example get super pissed off when guys try and do this. Listened to a Phenom jet takeoff from KMQS and try and get their clearance in air, they were headed east and an irritated Philly approach gave them a westerly heading and told them to standby and call back in 5 minutes...talk about a waste of money! this wasn't even during a busy time either.  I understand for those of us in different parts of the country this may not be the case, just sharing my two cents...again, I am certainly no expert on the matter but I learned from some of the best.

[201er]

Just now, N6758N said:

 

Based on my limited experience flying IFR here in the Northeast, this is a big no no. My instructor drilled it into my head to never try and pick up a clearance in the air unless its an emergency. I have heard ATC on more than one example get super pissed off when guys try and do this. Listened to a Phenom jet takeoff from KMQS and try and get their clearance in air, they were headed east and an irritated Philly approach gave them a westerly heading and told them to standby and call back in 5 minutes...talk about a waste of money! this wasn't even during a busy time either.  I understand for those of us in different parts of the country this may not be the case, just sharing my two cents...again, I am certainly no expert on the matter but I learned from some of the best.

You gotta know who you can get it from and who you can't. Definitely a bad idea when it's IMC or MVFR. But if it's easy VFR and you can take your time to pick it up, once you get away from the Bravo's, most controllers when not busy will give it to you. So in the NYC area, it's best to pick it up from Allentown or McGuire and not NY or Philly.

[N6758N]

2 minutes ago, 201er said:

You gotta know who you can get it from and who you can't. Definitely a bad idea when it's IMC or MVFR. But if it's easy VFR and you can take your time to pick it up, once you get away from the Bravo's, most controllers when not busy will give it to you. So in the NYC area, it's best to pick it up from Allentown or McGuire and not NY or Philly.

Mike,

I can see this being the case as you mention. I guess all my flying inside the Philly Bravo led me to that conclusion. If it was a gorgeous VFR day and I was doing a long XC, I would consider launching VFR and then picking up and IFR clearance down the road when I was outside of congested airspace. To me its easier just to do all the IFR planning on the ground and get the clearance instead of having to focus on it while flying the airplane. 

[gsxrpilot]

In my example I'm leaving some mildly congested airspace for the empty plains of West Texas. It's easier for everyone to leave VFR and work out the IFR with Albuquerque Center who doesn't have anything else to do anyway.

[ArtVandelay]

17 minutes ago, 201er said:

You gotta know who you can get it from and who you can't. Definitely a bad idea when it's IMC or MVFR. But if it's easy VFR and you can take your time to pick it up, once you get away from the Bravo's, most controllers when not busy will give it to you. So in the NYC area, it's best to pick it up from Allentown or McGuire and not NY or Philly.

So, let's say I'm north of NYC, I want to start out VFR, fly the Hudson corridor then continue south, after leaving bravo umbrella I would climb to 8000' on my way to RBV and call Old Bridge departure frequency to pick up clearance, and fly over Philadelphia bravo airspace.

Will they let me overfly at 8000 and since I'm calling the designated departure frequency I assume that they will have no problem with it?