electroair for a M20K 231

[chrisk]

I'm curious if anyone has installed an electroair ignition on a M20K-231.  Was there a noticeable difference?  I'm wondering if this device makes much of a difference, since the mags are pressurized.

[carusoam]

They are offering electronic timing changes on their system.  That should make some noticeable power and efficiency changes.

There are M20Js that appreciate 25° vs. 20° BTDC timing changes.  That could be interesting for the K for the same reasons...

Would you go with both mags changed at the same time?

PP ideas that came up after reading their website...

Best regards,

-a-

[CaptRJM]

You can only replace one mag with an Electroair.  Reason is that it requires electricity for it to run. In the event of a complete loss of electrical power the Electroair will fail but the standard mag will remain on-line.

E-Mag is supposed to come out with an STC'ed mag in the next couple of years.  You will be able to replace both mags with their product.  The difference is the E-Mag will internally generate its own power using the rotation of the mag drive shaft.

Stay tuned, we all know how these things go.

[carusoam]

Would one emag be worth all the effort?

would variable timing have an advantage when a large percentage of the firing is related to the second mag.

One mag fires the top plugs on one side.  Bottom on the other.  How would this be affected by the emag?

Having a mag failure, you would still want the top/bottom issue done the same way...?

PP thoughts, I'm clearly not a mechanic...

Best regard,

-a-

[Andy95W]

The Electroair system is impressive in its design and function.  I'm not sure it's worth $3000, but it is worth talking to the guys at OSH or visiting their website.

[kevinw]

I have the system in my J. Most noticeably it's much smoother at idle. As far as performance the payoff comes at higher altitudes. I was up yesterday at 9500 msl and running 2500 rpm burning 9.3 gph. I was told by my cfi that from the ground the engine even sounds different. Smoother. I've been happy with it and even more so after installing fine wire plugs which were not available when I installed it about two years ago.


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[Brandontwalker]

Can't wait for this to be available for single drive/dual mag models.


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[kevinw]

1 hour ago, Brandontwalker said:

Can't wait for this to be available for single drive/dual mag models.


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...and it will. From what I've read they're working on it. It's available now for experimental and hopefully soon on certified aircraft.

[rbridges]

I just read an AOPA article, and it sounded like self contained electronic ignitions are starting to be developed for certified aircraft.  Here's a copy of the article just in case you're not a member.

 

Just about every aircraft piston engine is burdened with two magnetos, anachronistic holdovers from a bygone era. These mechanically complex, failure-prone relics are inherently inefficient because of their fixed timing. Mags fire at the same point in the combustion cycle regardless of the amount of fuel the engine is burning, the quantity of air it’s breathing, or the density altitude at which it’s flying.

 

The Wright brothers used one magneto in their aircraft engines from the very beginning of powered flight in 1903.

Modern electronic ignitions (EIs)—such as those that have given cars across-the-board gains in power, fuel efficiency, and reliability—should be able to do even more in aircraft because their variable timing kicks in every time an aircraft climbs or descends. EIs can reduce fuel consumption, eliminate the need for 500-hour magneto servicing, and use inexpensive automotive spark plugs that produce hotter, longer-lasting sparks than the aviation variety.

Magnetos have been allowed to hang around all these years for one reason: They don’t rely on power from the aircraft electrical system. If an aircraft battery or alternator dies, or a pilot turns off the electrical master switch in flight, magnetos don’t care. They keep on firing. This critical feature has been enough to outweigh EI advantages; but not anymore.

A new generation of EIs that contain internal alternators has been developed—and they, too, can run without aircraft electricity.

Web:

www.electroair.net
www.emagair.com
www.lightspeedengineering.com

“Magnetos can run without external power, and so can we,” said Brad Dement, founder of E-Mag Inc., a Texas firm that has built and sold more than 4,000 self-powering electronic ignitions for Experimental and Light Sport aircraft. “That’s been their sole claim to fame for decades, but it’s not going to be good enough anymore.”

E-Mag currently makes EIs for four-cylinder engines only, but the company plans to start shipping six-cylinder versions this year. Manufacturers have shown that EIs typically reduce fuel burn up to 15 percent, a savings of about 2.5 gallons per hour on a 260-horsepower engine.

Dement said the company also will pursue full FAA certification for a dual EI installation in Standard-category airplanes. “We’re going forward with it,” he said. “We’ve been encouraged by the FAA’s response so far.”

Light Speed Engineering, a California company, pioneered EI installations in Experimental airplanes beginning in 
1986; they are standard equipment in Carbon Cubs, the best-selling Light Sport aircraft on the market. European regulators have approved Lightspeed’s system for use in both helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft.

Klaus Savier, the record-setting pilot who designed the Lightspeed system, said the company’s Plasma ignition systems increase range up to 20 percent over mechanical magnetos. “The advantages [of EIs] over magnetos have been clear for a very long time,” he said. “The aviation industry is finally recognizing that any electronic ignition is better than any magneto.”

Electroair, a Michigan company, has the only EI system the FAA has approved for Standard-category aircraft, and it replaces one magneto, not both. (The Electroair system is installed on the AOPA 2017 Sweepstakes Ascend 172, see page 36.) The Electroair system requires ship’s power, and it sells dual EIs for Experimental aircraft with battery backups.

I recently had the E-Mag system installed on the Lycoming IO-320 in my airplane, and the results were immediate and obvious.

The engine starts easier and cruises lean of peak EGT with reduced fuel consumption. By the time the engine reaches its 2,000-hour TBO, the fuel savings of one gallon per hour will have paid for the upgrade several times over. Eliminating periodic magneto servicing makes EIs an even better value.

I considered installing one EI and keeping a single magneto, and there are advantages to this approach. First, 
you get about 75 percent of the fuel-efficiency benefit from a single EI. (The EI timing advances with altitude, so it typically fires before the magneto.) Second, if an aircraft is ever stuck on the ground with a dead battery, an impulse magneto would allow old-fashioned hand-propping the engine.

That’s not an option with EIs.

But I went with two EIs because the idea of being finished with mags (and aircraft spark plugs and ignition harnesses) permanently was too good to pass up. Also, my remaining magneto was due for an $800 servicing, and that was more than half the cost of a new electronic ignition ($1,395).

Hopefully, more EIs will gain FAA approval. And regardless of whether that approval comes in the form of STCs or full certification, the benefits in terms of fuel efficiency, reliability, and cost are too great to ignore.

Email dave.hirschman@aopa.org

[Schinderhannes]

I just learned about a new magneto alternative at the Aviation XPO in Palm Springs. FAA approval for certified aircraft is pending. The company behind Surefly is Skytec.   

http://www.surefly.net/products

[rbridges]

I'm excited about the idea.  Hopefully my mags will hold up until the certified versions are ready to go.

[1964-M20E]

E-mag and sure-fly  have the right idea simple installation.

 

E-mag to me sounds a little better since it has it's own internal power source.

 

Wonder if I could get field approval to replace one mag??  Would be interesting.

 

 

[gsxrpilot]

I just got back from the Advanced Pilot Seminar in Ada, OK.  I'll just say I'm no longer in the market for an Electroair for my 252.  It's not that they are bad, but looking at the differences in duration of spark and intensity and it's effect on peak internal pressures, has me thinking I'll just stay with the mags for awhile.

There is a 231 pilot on this forum flying with an Electroair ignition.

[aaronk25]

Ya I'm a turbo there just isn't much gain in efficiency BUT.....if it we could complicate the heck out of it it might make sense if running DEEP LOP by advancing the timing.

As you probably know the Problem with deep LOP is the mixture burns so if we could crank up the timing it might possibly yield better efficiency. Nox emissions would be off the chart and the EPA would have a fit.


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[Rustler]

I installed one in April of this year. I'm turbo'd and live at 7109' MSL. We wired it to fire the lower plugs, which I changed from Tempest massives to Tempest fine wires, which have a gap about as wide as the one between some front teeth I've seen.

I've experienced cooler CHTs, smoother engine ignition, and about 1/2 gal/hour less fuel consumption at the same settings as I had used previously.

The ElectroAire guys will readily tell you that the most dramatic improvement in performance will occur in a normally aspirated engine at lower altitudes.

Like other commenters, I wish we could get rid of the other mag and go to a purely electronic system. For what it's worth don't think that's too far away. 

[rbridges]

let me ask this.  what if your mags need to be rebuilt/replaced?  would it not make sense to switch to electronic ignition if available for certified planes?  just seems like potential durability and longevity could be better.  

[Rustler]

On 10/24/2016 at 7:11 PM, rbridges said:

let me ask this.  what if your mags need to be rebuilt/replaced?  would it not make sense to switch to electronic ignition if available for certified planes?  just seems like potential durability and longevity could be better.  

Interesting you ask this.

My mags were at 450+ hours since installation with the new engine. We removed one and sent it for inspection, thinking that we'd replace the one still in the aircraft with that one at annual in October, then keep the one we removed last. Unfortunately--or maybe not--the one we removed turned out to have a cracked case, which would not pass inspection in a pressurized mag. It was a costly repair. Still, I think the idea is (was) a good one. If we ever get to the point that we can readily install a complete electronic system, that would be the best time to do it.

[Mcstealth]

On October 24, 2016 at 1:42 PM, gsxrpilot said:

I just got back from the Advanced Pilot Seminar in Ada, OK.  I'll just say I'm no longer in the market for an Electroair for my 252.  It's not that they are bad, but looking at the differences in duration of spark and intensity and it's effect on peak internal pressures, has me thinking I'll just stay with the mags for awhile.

There is a 231 pilot on this forum flying with an Electroair ignition.

Okay then, what was the take on this? Hard data showing pressures so high that it was concerning?