Dream Panel 2

[gsxrpilot]

As the other thread had run off the rails, I'll ask my question in a new thread.

Now that I've upgraded my airplane, I'm thinking of a slow and budget friendly way of going from a stock 80's vintage (read heavy) panel to an all glass, all electric, and useful load friendly, panel.

I think the best example of this panel is Don Kaye's Bravo. But I think I'd rather have the Avidyne Com/Nav/GPS/Transponder stack rather than the Garmin. So the question is, how much if any, cross communication is there between the Garmin G500 PFD/MFD and the Com/Nav/GPS/Trans stack? Am I losing anything by going with an IFD 540/440 stack rather than a GTN 750/650 combo. This would ultimately be paired with a G500, which I think I prefer over the Aspen option.

Assuming this is a viable option, I think I start down this road by replacing my GNS530W and KT76A with a IFD540, AXP322, SkyTrax100.

Thoughts?

[donkaye]

36 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

As the other thread had run off the rails, I'll ask my question in a new thread.

Now that I've upgraded my airplane, I'm thinking of a slow and budget friendly way of going from a stock 80's vintage (read heavy) panel to an all glass, all electric, and useful load friendly, panel.

I think the best example of this panel is Don Kaye's Bravo. But I think I'd rather have the Avidyne Com/Nav/GPS/Transponder stack rather than the Garmin. So the question is, how much if any, cross communication is there between the Garmin G500 PFD/MFD and the Com/Nav/GPS/Trans stack? Am I losing anything by going with an IFD 540/440 stack rather than a GTN 750/650 combo. This would ultimately be paired with a G500, which I think I prefer over the Aspen option.

Assuming this is a viable option, I think I start down this road by replacing my GNS530W and KT76A with a IFD540, AXP322, SkyTrax100.

Thoughts?

I know a lot of people like the Avidyne GPS products.  I can't comment on them, since no student I have had has one so I haven't studied them. (That should say something).  So my question is, "Why would you want to ask for interface problems by going with multiple competing vendors who have no interest in inter compatibility."  Even as Garmin put out the GTX 345, they won't have the software for the interface to the G500 until later this year.  Going with Avidyne there will never be an interface should Avidyne do a software update to their products.

Also Garmin continually has been upgrading their GTN series.  I can't think of any function I would like to do that my GTNs can't do.  

Just food for thought, Paul.

[StevenL757]

Paul, agree with Don, and without turning this into a "X vs. Y" discussion (also not having flown the 440/540), I'll take this a bit further.  I've found that the Garmin stuff "just works" far better and plays much nicer together than many owners reports have indicated in Beechtalk, Socata, and MS forums alike.  Personally, my goal was to equip as close to an airline standard as possible, and my GTN / G500 / GAD43E / L-3 ESI-500 / NGT9000+ accomplish this perfectly.  It sounds like you may be headed in that direction.

Granted, the Garmin options can be more expensive depending on options, database subscription choices, etc. so I won't minimize cost as a factor.  Although I've only spent a few hundred hours between a GTN750 + G600-equipped C425 Conquest1, and my own ship post-upgrade, I've never had a glitch with any of the Garmin or L-3 systems in either aircraft.  I hope you keep in mind the overall long-term cost of ownership and peace-of-mind instead of low ramp-up costs of "option B" - whatever that represents to you.  Again, I'm only going by owners' experiences in person and in forums, where I continually read far more about issues with non-Garmin hardware, than with.

Yes, exceptions to the rule do exist, but are fewer and further between.  Like many others, I didn't have unlimited resources to equip my panel - but wanted to spend the money where I could, invest, and choose what I thought was the safest, easiest-to-use, and scalable hardware system based on performance, track record, and support, and I believe I accomplished that.  Happy to share panel pics and experiences if it helps exploration and your decision-making efforts.

Regards, Steve

[Bennett]

I really like how well Garmin avionics interface with one another. I have the GTN 750, GTN 650, AERA 796, GDL 88, their remote transponder, remote audio panel, FlightSteam 210 (exchanges data with my Mini 4 via ForeFlight). Everything works surprisingly well, and Garmin has constantly upgraded both firmware and software. A G500/600 would be nice, but I still like the "sacred six" round gauges- I'm old, and I still prefer needles to tapes.

[Bob_Belville]

Similar to Bennett, I've had a GTN750, GPS 696 GDL 88 integrated with an Aspen PDF 1000 Pro and an STEC50 for 4 years. The traffic and weather on the 750 is very helpful, perhaps life saving.  I intend to add a Garmin FS 510 next week which will enable me to sync my Android tablet running Garmin Pilot to the GTN and GDL. The new One PaK Subscription for the GTN includes the 696 and half the Pilot cost, a huge savings.

Garmin continues to add features making my panel ever sweeter. I am a very happy customer. 

[carusoam]

Panels that come to mind...

1) Don Kaye's Bravo

2) Steven's Ovation

3) Craig's old 201

4) Marauder's F

5) Bob's E

6) MS's Swiss C (dang memory challenges! )

7) Soon to be announced (any Mooney with a G1000, ADSB, and WAAS capability)

I would refresh the memories of Doc John's F and Bennet's J as well...

Best regards,

-a-

[StevenL757]

Thanks Anthony!  So...who's comin' to FL next week?

I'm offering selfies with my panel for $2.00 each during the Friday Airport Day.

(kidding)

[mike_elliott]

 

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

1 hour ago, StevenL757 said:

So...who's comin' to FL next week?

 

about 150 of your close and not so close Mooney friends, Steve!

back on topic, Avidyne will be there Paul, as will L3. You might get some of your answers from them. There will also be a number with Avidyne boxes in their plane, including one owner of an Ovation, (but he's flying his Lake Amphibian, also Avidyne equipped to the Summit) Garmin wont be there, but I have a nice D2 watch they donated to the drawing some lucky Mooney Summit attendee will win.

The L3 Lynx might be something you should consider for this stack, one will be available to win on The Mooney Summit silent auction. Bring your checkbook! I have one, and I love it. While a nice unit, I find the Lynx superior to the Garmin 345 I have flown behind, as the L3 Lynx can display wx, metars, traffic, etc not only itself, but other non L3 boxes. It plays nice with my Aspen, My GNS, wifi's to my IPAD, and is software upgradeable to active traffic, and other future software features (can you say FS510 functionality?) Something to consider and ask Bill Ladigo about at the Mooney Summit while your here!

[StevenL757]

Although this will be my first summit (and I'll probably say this more than once), sincere thanks to Mike for driving the planning for what I'm sure will be a really cool event.  The detailed comms to all of us, the hours and hours spent orchestrating this, and his many interactions with others to line up the week's schedule are amazing, and I certainly appreciate the opportunity to be a part of it.

Steve

[Andy95W]

7 hours ago, Bennett said:

I really like how well Garmin avionics interface with one another. 

Garmin Aera 500 hard wired to GDL-39 bluetoothed to Garmin Pilot iPad all work surprisingly well together.

20 year old Garmin GPS-155 sits in the the panel somewhat aloof and a little bit droll...

[mike_elliott]

11 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Although this will be my first summit (and I'll probably say this more than once), sincere thanks to Mike for driving the planning for what I'm sure will be a really cool event.  The detailed comms to all of us, the hours and hours spent orchestrating this, and his many interactions with others to line up the week's schedule are amazing, and I certainly appreciate the opportunity to be a part of it.

Steve

Thanks Steve, but this is a team effort and there are many people that are to thank. Guys like Don Maxwell and Bruce Jaeger who share years of experience and travel on their nickel to come to the Mooney Summit to help us "better the breed", as do all our first rate Subject matter experts. The list is long and in the last email I sent! 

[StevenL757]

Thanks Mike.  Agree - absolutely is a huge team effort where equal recognition applies.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I believe my IFR panel flying has evolved from a "read the needles and create a mental situational awareness visualization" to directly observing graphically-depicted flight, navigation and weather data.  The all-screen panel is a quantum step up in capability compared to the six-pack panel I trained on 30 years ago.  

My recent 5,000 mile cross-country would have been harder without the graphical presentations and automation.  I probably would have landed a couple times more to see what FSS reported if I didn't have on-board weather.  Deviation decisions were greatly aided by being able to "rubber band" the route on the iPad to avoid weather, then send that route to the panel.  

The smooth integration of compatible screens is a key feature of my panel.  Route changes show up on all screens after entry in one.  The route shows on weather screens, traffic appearis on the geo-referenced approach plates, the airport diagram that appears at taxi speed after landing are examples of the many valuable assists to single-pilot flying.  With 600 hours of flying the G500 I am still impressed with how much more it tells me than the standard six ever could.   

That it all works together so well is an impressive achievement.  

My panel happens to be nearly all Garmin and I have no reason to think I'd do better with a more diverse mix of vendors' gear.   I doubt anyone who can afford to upgrade has regretted it.  There are no folks planning to rip out their Aspen or G500 to install a KCS-55A, are there?

[Marauder]

On 9/21/2016 at 0:12 PM, gsxrpilot said:

As the other thread had run off the rails, I'll ask my question in a new thread.

Now that I've upgraded my airplane, I'm thinking of a slow and budget friendly way of going from a stock 80's vintage (read heavy) panel to an all glass, all electric, and useful load friendly, panel.

I think the best example of this panel is Don Kaye's Bravo. But I think I'd rather have the Avidyne Com/Nav/GPS/Transponder stack rather than the Garmin. So the question is, how much if any, cross communication is there between the Garmin G500 PFD/MFD and the Com/Nav/GPS/Trans stack? Am I losing anything by going with an IFD 540/440 stack rather than a GTN 750/650 combo. This would ultimately be paired with a G500, which I think I prefer over the Aspen option.

Assuming this is a viable option, I think I start down this road by replacing my GNS530W and KT76A with a IFD540, AXP322, SkyTrax100.

Thoughts?

I would look closely at the compatibility capabilities of the different vendors and make a decision on the path from there. I have flown with Jerry in his almost all Garmin Ovation and the integration is there. That said, I know on one of the flights, even the G500 was still playing catchup to what the GTNs were already displaying.

A knowledgeable shop can help navigate the choices.

2 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

I believe my IFR panel flying has evolved from a "read the needles and create a mental situational awareness visualization" to directly observing graphically-depicted flight, navigation and weather data.  The all-screen panel is a quantum step up in capability compared to the six-pack panel I trained on 30 years ago.  

My recent 5,000 mile cross-country would have been harder without the graphical presentations and automation.  I probably would have landed a couple times more to see what FSS reported if I didn't have on-board weather.  Deviation decisions were greatly aided by being able to "rubber band" the route on the iPad to avoid weather, then send that route to the panel.  

The smooth integration of compatible screens is a key feature of my panel.  Route changes show up on all screens after entry in one.  The route shows on weather screens, traffic appearis on the geo-referenced approach plates, the airport diagram that appears at taxi speed after landing are examples of the many valuable assists to single-pilot flying.  With 600 hours of flying the G500 I am still impressed with how much more it tells me than the standard six ever could.   

That it all works together so well is an impressive achievement.  

My panel happens to be nearly all Garmin and I have no reason to think I'd do better with a more diverse mix of vendors' gear.   I doubt anyone who can afford to upgrade has regretted it.  There are no folks planning to rip out their Aspen or G500 to install a KCS-55A, are there?

Jerry -- Im stopping over to see Ben tomorrow. He will help lighten my wallet some more.

[Bob_Belville]

28 minutes ago, Marauder said:

 

Jerry -- Im stopping over to see Ben tomorrow. He will help lighten my wallet some more.

What now?! A poor old retired guy can't keep up... 

[carusoam]

Tomorrow?

I like shopping with Marauder.  He really knows the electronics from their insides...

And you get to learn new words like Klugey...  

So much for my all BK panel.

Best regards,

-a-

[Jerry 5TJ]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

I would look closely at the compatibility capabilities of the different vendors and make a decision on the path from there. I have flown with Jerry in his almost all Garmin Ovation and the integration is there. That said, I know on one of the flights, even the G500 was still playing catchup to what the GTNs were already displaying.

True, but a recent firmware revision to each Garmin box added yet more features plus improved that G500 to GTX correlation you mentioned.  Adding Flight Stream 210 pulled the 796 and iPad into synchronicity with the rest of the panel.  

Only the ESI-2000 maintains its stubborn independence.  Which is proper behavior for a backup panel.  

[Marauder]

3 hours ago, Bob_Belville said:

What now?! A poor old retired guy can't keep up... 

You'll just have to wait and see... 

[Marauder]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

Tomorrow?

I like shopping with Marauder.  He really knows the electronics from their insides...

And you get to learn new words like Klugey...  

So much for my all BK panel.

Best regards,

-a-

Well, I think we all were disappointed at the klugey KSN 770. I had held out high hopes but alas to be once again disappointed.