Who's Installing a G5?

[NotarPilot]

  On 11/20/2016 at 4:46 PM, Joe Larussa said:

Did you get yours installed yet?

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No, my plane is still in annual and I'm scheduled to pick it up on Dec 1st (with a Dec sign off) so once I pick it up I'll schedule the install. But with these 10-20 hour installation times I might have to wait until after Christmas. That is just ridiculous!

I will say that the shop I use at Fox in Lancaster, CA is very fair with pricing and his estimates are usually pretty close to actual cost. I look forward to sharing my experience once I get it done. He even said it should only take a few hours.

Edited November 20, 2016 by NotarPilot

[carusoam]

You guys have really taken the mystery out of the installation...!

Best regards,

-a-

[AaronDC8402]

  On 11/22/2016 at 1:03 PM, daver328 said:

We're in the shop now too ... 

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Do you mind saying who is doing your install? 

[Marauder]

  On 11/22/2016 at 1:03 PM, daver328 said:

We're in the shop now too ... EDM-930, Brittain AccuTrac and AccuFlite, G5 new right panel ... I haven't done the math ... but please please nobody mention a "cheeseburger!" (thread drift transfer) 

Someone say "Cheesecake"?




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[drapo]

  On 11/17/2016 at 11:39 PM, Joe Larussa said:

Okay so my install is going on twenty hours. I think this is more involved than I ever thought.

530 tray needs to be removed, wiring for GPS, and don't forget the recheck for static leaks

as well as jack the plane up and level it to adjust the inclinometer! Geeze!

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I started planning on buying a G5 and installing it during my annual next January. The initial quote by my avionic shop was 8 hours, so about $900 at the current rate.

But... since my WAAS GPS is Avidyne's IFD540 and Garmin's STC only permits Garmin's GPS to provide GPS signal, I would need to add another antenna and wiring to use G5's GPS information. Initial estimate adds another 10 hours to the total. 

No, thank you Mr G 

[Marauder]

  On 11/22/2016 at 3:52 PM, daver328 said:

Fat chance of Chris stoppping those horrendous posts! (Snicker)

Fat humor! Love it! Just think my posts as a community service. Otherwise you could end up with a broken seat





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[carusoam]

Marauder, Did those spring scratches initiate a crack?

or is that just a photo Largely supporting your giant sense of humongous humor? 

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

  On 11/23/2016 at 5:20 AM, carusoam said:

Marauder, Did those spring scratches initiate a crack?
or is that just a photo Largely supporting your giant sense of humongous humor? 
Best regards,
-a-

Cracks are real and from my seats. Be careful who you let sit in your plane!


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[NotarPilot]

  On 11/22/2016 at 4:14 PM, drapo said:

I started planning on buying a G5 and installing it during my annual next January. The initial quote by my avionic shop was 8 hours, so about $900 at the current rate.

But... since my WAAS GPS is Avidyne's IFD540 and Garmin's STC only permits Garmin's GPS to provide GPS signal, I would need to add another antenna and wiring to use G5's GPS information. Initial estimate adds another 10 hours to the total. 

No, thank you Mr G 

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I heard the IFD signal will work but the STC doesn't allow it yet. I,also heard they were working on an amendment to allow the GPS source to come from the Avidyne. If not hopefully you have a very liberal mechanic. 

[gsxrpilot]

  On 11/23/2016 at 11:13 AM, NotarPilot said:

I heard the IFD signal will work but the STC doesn't allow it yet. I,also heard they were working on an amendment to allow the GPS source to come from the Avidyne. If not hopefully you have a very liberal mechanic. 

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So how about this work-around?  I currently have a GNS530W which will soon be replaced with a slide-in IFD540. The tray, connectors, and WAAS Antenna will all remain Garmin. The STC allows for the installation of a Garmin Antenna as the WAAS source if a suitable GPS is not available. I technically still have a Garmin WAAS antenna soooo.....??

I think my avionics guy might be just liberal enough? 

[Marauder]

  On 11/23/2016 at 11:40 AM, gsxrpilot said:

So how about this work-around?  I currently have a GNS530W which will soon be replaced with a slide-in IFD540. The tray, connectors, and WAAS Antenna will all remain Garmin. The STC allows for the installation of a Garmin Antenna as the WAAS source if a suitable GPS is not available. I technically still have a Garmin WAAS antenna soooo.....??
I think my avionics guy might be just liberal enough? 

  On 11/23/2016 at 11:13 AM, NotarPilot said:

I heard the IFD signal will work but the STC doesn't allow it yet. I,also heard they were working on an amendment to allow the GPS source to come from the Avidyne. If not hopefully you have a very liberal mechanic. 

It's more likely the firmware for the G5 GPS data stream is Garmin proprietary and they need to open it up. Same thing is going on with the Garmin RTX-345 feeding Aspen displays for traffic and weather.


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[LANCECASPER]

  On 11/23/2016 at 11:40 AM, gsxrpilot said:

So how about this work-around?  I currently have a GNS530W which will soon be replaced with a slide-in IFD540. The tray, connectors, and WAAS Antenna will all remain Garmin. The STC allows for the installation of a Garmin Antenna as the WAAS source if a suitable GPS is not available. I technically still have a Garmin WAAS antenna soooo.....??

I think my avionics guy might be just liberal enough? 

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Install the G5 while the GNS530W is in the airplane - get a logbook entry.  Then do your slide-in self-install IFD540.

[NotarPilot]

  On 11/23/2016 at 10:35 PM, LANCECASPER said:

Install the G5 while the GNS530W is in the airplane - get a logbook entry.  Then do your slide-in self-install IFD540.

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I agree, this is your best bet. Then let us know if it works.

Wouldn't the GPS coming out of the IFD look exactly like the signal from a GNS product since it was designed as a drop in replacement? I think it would work but I could be wrong. Worst case scenario, you'll have to mount and wire up that GPS antenna for the G5.

[DXB]

  On 11/20/2016 at 5:00 PM, Marauder said:

Dev - if I am reading their STC correctly (and looking back at the FAA rulemaking on electronic replacements), I think the G5 should qualify as a primary backup for your Aspen. At least that is what I am looking to do now. As for future enhancements, with the GPS inputs, they could update the firmware and allow for an HSI on the certified box. My guess they rolled this version out for Oshkosh and future enhancements which require modifying the STC are in the works. 

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Just discussed with my avionics guy - he's putting in a bunch of these now.  Unfortunately it's still a no go as the IFR backup for any glass PFD.  I'm gonna wait and hope this gets approved, along with unlocking the Nav functions for the certified instrument, including as a GPS-based HSI.  Wishful thinking?   

[donkaye]

  On 11/28/2016 at 5:32 PM, DXB said:

Just discussed with my avionics guy - he's putting in a bunch of these now.  Unfortunately it's still a no go as the IFR backup for any glass PFD.  I'm gonna wait and hope this gets approved, along with unlocking the Nav functions for the certified instrument, including as a GPS-based HSI.  Wishful thinking?   

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There is always the ESI 500 which has it all--including SVT for just a few thousand more.  I really don't understand all this interest in the G5, which is basically just an AI.

[DXB]

  On 11/28/2016 at 5:38 PM, donkaye said:

There is always the ESI 500 which has it all--including SVT for just a few thousand more.  I really don't understand all this interest in the G5, which is basically just an AI.

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As a certified primary, the ESI 500 is clearly superior, and seems like a good value even at more than double the cost of the G5.    But I'm talking about a  backup instrument to an Aspen PFD that will rarely (hopefully never) be needed. So the drivers here are to break even by eliminating vac pump replacement and gyro overhauls while also saving a couple of pounds.  Modern low cost digital options for a backup AI are limited to Dynon D10a and RC Allen 2600,which cost the same as the G5. If the certified G5 gets approved for backup and also gets the Nav function that the experimental version offers, it would blow the other options out of the water.

[AaronDC8402]

  On 11/28/2016 at 5:32 PM, DXB said:

Just discussed with my avionics guy - he's putting in a bunch of these now.  Unfortunately it's still a no go as the IFR backup for any glass PFD.  I'm gonna wait and hope this gets approved, along with unlocking the Nav functions for the certified instrument, including as a GPS-based HSI.  Wishful thinking?   

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I know I have seen the G5 installed with an Aspen. The STC reads that the G5 has to be the primary, and it has to replace a vac AI. I assume people are getting around this by considering the Aspen the back-up.

Also, I have personally confirmed that there is a GPS-based HSI on the certified G5. It can't replace or even back-up a DG or HSI (since it's GPS-based). I guess it's just eye candy. Kind of surprised it's even in there. I don't think I will find a use scenario for it.

[NotarPilot]

  On 11/28/2016 at 5:32 PM, DXB said:

Just discussed with my avionics guy - he's putting in a bunch of these now.  Unfortunately it's still a no go as the IFR backup for any glass PFD.  I'm gonna wait and hope this gets approved, along with unlocking the Nav functions for the certified instrument, including as a GPS-based HSI.  Wishful thinking?   

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Could you ask your avionics guy what the average installation time looks like?

[Marauder]

  On 11/28/2016 at 5:32 PM, DXB said:

Just discussed with my avionics guy - he's putting in a bunch of these now.  Unfortunately it's still a no go as the IFR backup for any glass PFD.  I'm gonna wait and hope this gets approved, along with unlocking the Nav functions for the certified instrument, including as a GPS-based HSI.  Wishful thinking?   

Dev - I spoke with Ben today to find out why the G5 is not eligible as a backup for the Aspen, yet can be certified as primary. The reason is that both the Aspen PFD and Garmin G5 use airspeed as part of the algorithm for calculating attitude. Because of this single point of failure, it cannot be used as a backup.

Ironically however, it can be used as sole primary.


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[kortopates]

So when your pitot tube freezes or anything happens that takes out your ram air to the IAS, and your Aspen goes big Red X, you sure don't wan't to see your G5 attitude do the same!

Good find Chris, its critical to know the failure modes so you know what they can be and then train/practice accordingly.

[Marauder]

  On 12/7/2016 at 2:38 AM, kortopates said:

So when your pitot tube freezes or anything happens that takes out your ram air to the IAS, and your Aspen goes big Red X, you sure don't wan't to see your G5 attitude do the same!
Good find Chris, its critical to know the failure modes so you know what they can be and then train/practice accordingly.

Yeah Paul I was surprised to find out that the Aspen uses airspeed in conjunction with the AHRS and it certainty explains why the G5 isn't eligible.


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[jetdriven]

  On 12/7/2016 at 2:38 AM, kortopates said:

So when your pitot tube freezes or anything happens that takes out your ram air to the IAS, and your Aspen goes big Red X, you sure don't wan't to see your G5 attitude do the same!

Good find Chris, its critical to know the failure modes so you know what they can be and then train/practice accordingly.

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It was quite shocking to see this on the aspen just as we rotated to lift off. Glad we had an old fashioned vacuum iron gyro as a backup 

[Marauder]

  On 12/7/2016 at 2:50 AM, jetdriven said:

It was quite shocking to see this on the aspen just as we rotated to lift off. Glad we had an old fashioned vacuum iron gyro as a backup 

And it has me rethinking about removing my vacuum AI.


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[mccdeuce]

Hmmm.  So its acceptable to have a system based on a single vacuum source that does not account for speed in its calculation of attitude but not have a gps assisted electric system based on airspeed?  Hopefully with these systems gaining STC we will see more and more competition which will lead to better products.

[AaronDC8402]

  On 12/7/2016 at 2:30 AM, Marauder said:

 

Dev - I spoke with Ben today to find out why the G5 is not eligible as a backup for the Aspen, yet can be certified as primary. The reason is that both the Aspen PFD and Garmin G5 use airspeed as part of the algorithm for calculating attitude. Because of this single point of failure, it cannot be used as a backup.

Ironically however, it can be used as sole primary.


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I know the Aspen shows a red X for attitude if the pitot is blocked. I've personally seen it. I don't think the G5 does that. 

From Garmin's manual:

The G5 calculates aircraft attitude using information from its built-in inertial sensors. Any failure of the inertial sensors results in loss of attitude and information (indicated by red 'X' flags over the PFD attitude display). If the G5 senses that the attitude solution is valid, but not yet within the internal accuracy limits, "ALIGNING" is displayed. The G5 can align itself both while taxiing and during level flight. The G5 will also use GPS and airspeed data to provide the most accurate attitude information. If none of these additional sources of information are available, attitude calculations will still be valid but accuracy may be slightly affected.