Bladder Tank 10 Gallon Add-On

[Hank]

I flew 3.6 hours Wednesday evening at 9000 msl, 20-1/2"/2500 and 50°ROP, with three approaches to land at a narrow slot in the trees until I could see the runway lights on final. This morning I flew along the beach a few minutes then headed ~20 minutes away for fuel, call it 4.1 hours. I bought 37.8 gals, surprising the nice man at the FBO who hung out and helped while I pumped. Including the extra two night approaches looking for the field at Full Rich, thats still only 9.2 gph. Those extra minutes should have burned an extra gallon or two . . .

[Alan Fox]

On ‎7‎/‎28‎/‎2016 at 1:54 PM, PTK said:

I wonder what the bladders do to the resale value in view of the fact that they are irreversible and detract useful load. I guess it would depend on how the airplane is used as to how critical ul is?

Answer , I have sold a number of Mooneys , Every single customer prefers Bladders.....  Question answered......

[PTK]

3 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

Answer , I have sold a number of Mooneys , Every single customer prefers Bladders.....  Question answered......

Where is your data and how large is your population? (The ones you intimidated and coerced with the chain saw don't count.) 

Please post your statistical analysis?

[Alan Fox]

39 minutes ago, PTK said:

Where is your data and how large is your population? (The ones you intimidated and coerced with the chain saw don't count.) 

Please post your statistical analysis?

My data is stored in my noggin , population is global...., see previous post for statistical data....

 

[Alan Fox]

2 hours ago, Alan Fox said:

My data is stored in my noggin , population is global...., see previous post for statistical data....

 

For shame...... Peter G  has not " liked " my response........

[steingar]

Bladders are what sold me mine.  Permanent fix for a small loss of payload.  Plenty left for my mission.  Might even do the extra a10 gals sometime and fly the pond.

[Hank]

Just now, steingar said:

Bladders are what sold me mine.  Permanent fix for a small loss of payload.  Plenty left for my mission.  Might even do the extra a10 gals sometime and fly the pond.

Shoot, with my well-proven endurance of 5-1/2+ hours, i don't need no stinking "extra 10 gals," bladder or ni bladder. Yesterday's 4 hours was plenty long enough,  thank you. 

Speaking of bladders,  it'stime to vent some used coffee . . . .  

[ArtVandelay]

What's the cost of bladders for a standard factory fuel tanks these days?

[Hank]

When I resealed my 52-gal tanks in 2010, bladder conversion was > 10 AMU. No idea about 2016 prices, or any prices for 64 gals. My reseal was 1/3 less cost and 40 pounds less weight. 

[Hank]

I called around and priced the following options back in 2010:  Weep No More, Wet Wingologists, Don Maxwell (using Weep No More's process) and Midwest Mooney's polyurethane sealant. The latter cost the most; Wet Wingologists was the least; other than Midwest, flying distance was about even. All had seven year warranties. Discount airline flights were available to Ft. Lauderdale, and Edison had an opening that fit my schedule and the airlines. My roundtrip ticket, FLL --> HTS --> FLL cost me $143 after all fees were added in, plus one night in a hotel and one taxi ride, FLL --> FXE.

A friend on this list installed bladders at the same time. My reseal was just over 35% lower cost than his bladders, unless he inflated his bill when discussing it with me. We both had 52 gallon tanks, different year C models. Maybe because Edsion gives MAPA discounts?

[Flymac]

Does anyone know by chance when the 10 gal add on originally came out, roughly?  Do the factory 25 gal fuel tabs get removed? And its 2 extra access panels total correct(vs factory when all done)

[neilpilot]

37 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

We added the 10 gallon bladders to our C model in either 1994 or 1995 and they had been available for a year or so at that time.

Really?  Well I had Dmax install bladders in my 64E in 2001 ( was in Gladewater during 9/11). I'm certain O&N had just come out with the 10 gal option in late 2001, since I considered the option but it was not yet available as of Aug 2001.

[flyer7324]

The add-on bladders are being installed as I type. Should have plane back next week. Will advise as to particulars. I can tell u now that actual capacity is 66.5 with 2.5 unusable.

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[flyer7324]

10 Gallon STC was approved in 2003.

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[smwash02]

Parts are hard enough as it is to find sometimes. I prefer the wet wing because there will always be another FAA approved tank sealant.
What happens if your bladder springs a leak and the manufacturer goes out of business and you can't switch back to the wet wing?

[flyer7324]

Really?

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[jetdriven]

You get the bladder repaired or Overhauled. So far nobody has needed it 

Edited August 5, 2016 by jetdriven

[flyer7324]

I've had the 54.8 set since 2000. Absolutely no problems.

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[Bob_Belville]

52 minutes ago, flyer7324 said:

I've had the 54.8 set since 2000. Absolutely no problems.

Ditto - 1997

[flyer7324]

I did quite a bit of playing with total fuel burn at cruise altitudes ranging from SL to 12,000' using book numbers and no wind.  What I found was:

1.  Out to about 200 NM it really doesn't matter what altitude you pick, the difference in burn will probably be less than 1 gallon.

2.  At about 300 NM, the edge goes to an altitude of 8000 - 12000 but the burn difference between that and SL is still less than 2 gallons.

3.  Way out at 800 NM:

     A.  The difference between SL and 12000 is about 7 gallons.

     B.  12000 is less than a gallon better than 10,000 and only about 2 gallons better than 8000.  That's only about a 4% difference it total burn.

To my mind, the best altitude is around 8000' +/-.  It is always competitive range wise.  It gives me a higher cruise speed than up high.  I find it is easier to keep the CHT's down because the air is thicker.  It's high enough to get above the thermal turbulence as long as it's 6000' AGL.  I don't spend forever in a high power, high noise, low ground speed climb.

Just my opinion of course.

Bob

What model M20 are u flying Bob?

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[flyer7324]

I burned 52.4 gallons returning from KOSH Saturday. I chose to make a fuel stop, actually not a choice, but having the extra 10 gallons, I have the 54 gallon bladders, would have made non stop an option.

(I was @ 9000' burning ~8.3 GPH LOP most of the flight with no tail wind.)

I was able to do MRN-MSN non stop 7/22 with a head wind using 42 gallons with more direct routing.

So, I vaclilate. A human needs stop is not  bad thing.

The point for me is that the extra 10-11 gallons gives u options especially on long cross country's that I fly and especially in MVFR/IFR conditions. To me it's the best speed mod for my aircraft in addition to adding a welcome margin of safety and comfort.

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[Bob_Belville]

1 hour ago, flyer7324 said:

The point for me is that the extra 10-11 gallons gives u options especially on long cross country's that I fly and especially in MVFR/IFR conditions. To me it's the best speed mod for my aircraft in addition to adding a welcome margin of safety and comfort.

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Did you get your plane back? Did you tell us who did the 10 gallon add on?

[flyer7324]

Just after Labor Day. Griggs Aircraft at 76N

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[Hank]

1 hour ago, flyer7324 said:

What model M20 are u flying Bob?

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Bob flies a J. This is an interesting analysis, I need to do the same for my C.

[flyer7324]

On a flight last month made it easily from KHVN to 28J with 14 gallons


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