Bravo’s with Monroy LR Tanks

[carusoam]

Boomer,

You can add all kinds of details to your avatar area… what plane you fly is always helpful to know…

Best regards,

-a-

[alextstone]

20 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

@alextstone BTW, which filler do you use to get the total fuel on one side.  I always thought the factory tank would just be full all the time until the Monroy tank was empty, and then start going down?

The Monroy modification is really still just one larger tank with one filler per side.  

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, alextstone said:

The Monroy modification is really still just one larger tank with one filler per side.

This is more like what I have.  If the inboard "tank" is down 5 gallons, and the outboard "tank" is empty, and you put 5 gallons in the outboard "tank", it will migrate to the inboard "tank" by gravity, leaving the outboard "tank" empty again, and the inboard "tank" 5 gallons up.  Other side is a mirror image with 2 more fillers.

 

[alextstone]

On 4/28/2022 at 8:58 PM, Fly Boomer said:

I'm a big believer in sticking the tanks.  I would love to have one of those placards.  How much?

FYI, this setup will not work with your fuel tanks, sorry.

 

[LANCECASPER]

20 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

This is more like what I have.  If the inboard "tank" is down 5 gallons, and the outboard "tank" is empty, and you put 5 gallons in the outboard "tank", it will migrate to the inboard "tank" by gravity, leaving the outboard "tank" empty again, and the inboard "tank" 5 gallons up.  Other side is a mirror image with 2 more fillers.

 

This is going to sound picky, but I would want "100 LL" included in the placards in blue near my fuel caps rather that just AVGAS. I got mis-fueled once in a turbocharged airplane with JET-A.  The FBO manager caught it and called me on my cell after I got to the hotel to tell me that they were draining and flushing my tanks .

 

I use these:

 

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/fuelplacards9.php

 

I used to use these around my fuel caps:

https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/fuelplacards.php

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, LANCECASPER said:

want "100 LL" included in the placards in blue near my fuel caps rather that just AVGAS

I didn't have a picture showing both caps on my wing so I used a pic from one of the many airplanes I looked at.  Thanks for the catch!

[carusoam]

Unfortunately, Jet fuel when put in a Mooney tank allows enough run time to achieve about 1k’agl… before a piston melts a hole in its crown….

Sometimes the word Turbo is mis-understood to mean turbine…

 A Mooney with smaller fuel fill holes to avoid the jet fuel nozzle… has to be quite new to have them naturally… or recently updated…

 

Hmmmmmm…..  recent updates are nice….

PP thinking out loud… avoid getting Jet fuel in your tanks… always be looking for that usual blue color… nothing darker, lighter, red, or purple…

Best regards,

-a- 

[Pinecone]

On 4/29/2022 at 10:33 PM, Fly Boomer said:

This is more like what I have.  If the inboard "tank" is down 5 gallons, and the outboard "tank" is empty, and you put 5 gallons in the outboard "tank", it will migrate to the inboard "tank" by gravity, leaving the outboard "tank" empty again, and the inboard "tank" 5 gallons up.  Other side is a mirror image with 2 more fillers.

So you are saying that before any fuel is carried on the outboard tank, the inboard is full?

So you would have to calibrate the fuel stick to check the inner or the outer.  Inner only if it is not full, outer only if the inners are fuel, plus fuel in the outer.

[Fly Boomer]

29 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

So you would have to calibrate the fuel stick to check the inner or the outer.  Inner only if it is not full, outer only if the inners are fuel, plus fuel in the outer.

I think this is exactly right.  Also, fuel gauges read full until aux tanks are empty, then main tanks start going down.

[alexz]

Does anyone know if its possible to combine Monroy mod with the tank re-seal and who provides this service ?

Thanks!

[alextstone]

24 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I think this is exactly right.  Also, fuel gauges read full until aux tanks are empty, then main tanks start going down.

You can measure only from 34.5 gal to full due to the location of the filler

 

Alex

[Fly Boomer]

6 minutes ago, alextstone said:

You can measure only from 34.5 gal to full due to the location of the filler

I would say from 52.3 down to 37.8 the fuel gauge will say "full" (on each side).  Then from 37.8 down to zero, the fuel gauge tells you how much is in the main tank (on each side).  The gauges tell you nothing about how much is in the aux tanks.

[kortopates]

I would say from 52.3 down to 37.8 the fuel gauge will say "full" (on each side).  Then from 37.8 down to zero, the fuel gauge tells you how much is in the main tank (on each side).  The gauges tell you nothing about how much is in the aux tanks.

actually not until the mains are half full will the aux tanks be empty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fly Boomer]

15 minutes ago, kortopates said:

actually not until the mains are half full will the aux tanks be empty.

Even more confusing.  Does this mean that the connection between aux and main is partway down from the top of the main?

[tgardnerh]

Even more confusing.  Does this mean that the connection between aux and main is partway down from the top of the main?

From the above, my understanding is that it works like this, because the auxiliary tank is somewhat but not entirely above the main tank:


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[Fly Boomer]

4 minutes ago, tgardnerh said:

From the above, my understanding is that it works like this, because the auxiliary tank is somewhat but not entirely above the main tank:

Based on all the above info, that's my (new) understanding as well.  Nice drawing -- way better that trying to describe it!

[carusoam]

Gents…

We are in dangerous waters here…

We are discussing the same things… but we are missing much of the details in the conversation…

Extended tanks in some Mooneys are very separate from the main tanks, and further up hill…

Some occupy volumes in the wing differently than the mains…

It is important to know what you have in your plane…

Year of the plane dictates how many of these were plumbed… improvements followed over the years…

Long bodies simplified things the most… the main tanks extend into the next wing bay in an identical manner… The speed brakes are located out of the way… as TGard’s drawing nicely shows…

How the fuel was accounted for can be squirrelly.  The variation in tank geometry adds to the fun…

Often, the fuel starts entering the extended tanks long before the mains are filled up.

There are no valves to separate these tanks…. While filling one, fuel magically flows into the next one…

The Fuel level gauges are often really imperfect for this application… they don’t under estimate how much is in there, but they don’t indicate how full the tanks really are…

 

 

So…

+1 for know your system…
Know where the fuel really is under the skin…

know where the fuel floats really are…

M20Ks have the most complex fuel systems… from fuel storage, to priming the engine, and setting up the fuel system… 

Every new owner gets to go through the process of determining what the actual fuel levels are and how to determine them while filling the tanks…

Most people have a calibrated stick they use… often some Mooneys have calibrated mechanical fuel floats on the wing…. Calibrated for being on the ground…

 

Its a fun experiment often repeated… empty the tank, on level ground, fill it one gallon at a time, mark the stick, check the gauges, next gallon, repeat…

Don’t run out of fuel… know your useable fuel!

 

Mooney also selected a few different places for the fill holes to reside… and some M20Ks got flapper valves too…

The Long bodies with 100gal useful only have one fuel cap on each side….

 

See if @Gagarin is around… he can be an excellent resource when able….

Best regards,

-a-

[carusoam]

7 hours ago, alexz said:

Does anyone know if its possible to combine Monroy mod with the tank re-seal and who provides this service ?

Thanks!

There has been a recent announcement for who is now offering this service… it’s around here somewhere…

Haven’T seen any pireps yet… it’s that new.

Best regards,

-a-

[Fly Boomer]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

Haven’T seen any pireps yet… it’s that new.

 

[kortopates]

17 hours ago, tgardnerh said:

From the above, my understanding is that it works like this, because the auxiliary tank is somewhat but not entirely above the main tank:

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The diagram is a good representation since it shows the importance of the wing dihedral. But be aware that fuel moves through the rib between the main and aux through rib holes at very bottom as well as top (air and fuel). The diagram also illustrates  that the aux won't be completely drained till the mains are at half full. (You also can't reallytell this by just looking down hole at the aux fuel cap, you need to use flashlight to look inboard to see if fuel in still by the rib or dry.)

If you have the optional wing gauges, then your total fuel per wing becomes whatever you read on the wing gauge plus the fuel from aux tank you can measure by sticking the aux tank (see AFMS).

[Fly Boomer]

4 minutes ago, kortopates said:

If you have the optional wing gauges, then your total fuel per wing becomes whatever you read on the wing gauge plus the fuel from aux tank you can measure by sticking the aux tank (see AFMS).

Got the gauges, but had not thought of this.  Wing gauge + aux stick = total for that side.  Thanks!

I have the dreaded flappers.  Any tips for sticking the tanks with those.  Paul Maxwell says they can be removed, but it's nowhere near the top of my list.

[kortopates]

44 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

I have the dreaded flappers.  Any tips for sticking the tanks with those.  Paul Maxwell says they can be removed, but it's nowhere near the top of my list.

If you mean "Flapper valves" by design they try to restrict fuel flowing from the main tank to the aux tank, so they don't restrict flow from aux to main and therefore won't alter or effect measuring fuel in mains and aux. But perhaps I didn't understand your question correctly?

Flappers are desirable IMO but do leak, but if they were perfect you could fill the mains only and come back in 10-15 min later and all the fuel would still be in the mains, but they so allow the fuel to "leak" past into the aux as if you didn't have them, just more slowly. I wouldn't recommend removing them.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, kortopates said:

Flappers are desirable IMO but do leak, but if they were perfect you could fill the mains only and come back in 10-15 min later and all the fuel would still be in the mains, but they so allow the fuel to "leak" past into the aux as if you didn't have them, just more slowly. I wouldn't recommend removing them.

I was talking about the "anti-siphon" flappers on the M20K (just looked up that term).  They make it just about impossible to stick the tanks.

[kortopates]

20 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

I was talking about the "anti-siphon" flappers on the M20K (just looked up that term).  They make it just about impossible to stick the tanks.

I wondered! Just use the wing gauges and stick the aux tanks without anti-siphon valves.

[Fly Boomer]

8 hours ago, kortopates said:

I wondered! Just use the wing gauges and stick the aux tanks without anti-siphon valves.

I was thinking all 4 had the flappers, but I'll have to verify.  Your solution, of course, makes perfect sense if the outboard fillers don't have them.  It's been hovering around 100 here so I haven't been to the hangar for a few days.  Thanks!