Flight planning question for FIKI Acclaim drivers

[RobertE]

It's a rainy day in Nor Cal so I'm dreaming of my next aircraft, which will likely be a FIKI Acclaim due to its near all weather capability.  But does it really have that capability?  As an example, today's forecast is 2K broken, showers, tops 21K.  Surely there is ice somewhere in that cloud column.

is this a flight you would comfortably make via climbing to on top?  Would it depend on how thick the expected icing layer?  Would this be a no go unless you were comfortable motoring on below the freezing level?  Bottom line, does this aircraft really allow travel in many situations that would be unwise without FIKI and a 25K ceiling, or not?  Thanks.

[carqwik]

Even if my Bravo had FIKI, I likely wouldn't travel in it in those conditions (assuming widespread IMC, lots of icing, need to cross mountains, need to go high into the low flight levels, etc.). That's weather for a turbine airplane....pressurization, tons of power, boot system, heated windshield, wx radar, etc.  The jump in capability from a single engine piston to a turbine aircraft is huge IMHO.

[Jerry 5TJ]

I lived in N Ca for decades, flew aircraft there from "basic" Mooney C and E, T210, and FIKI P46T.  Winter storms in the area can be challenging.  FIKI is great but not a panacea.

My answer to your question: Not enough info to answer.

Icing--is it a trace at one level, or multiple freezing levels with PIREP of heavy ice?  SLD forecast?  

Generally you can't dependably file IFR  below freezing level as MEA are too high. 

As today's conditions are moderate, IMO, If you are sure your hypothetical Acclaim can climb to clear air and you are comfortable using O2 in the FL, yes you could go today.  I'd go in the P46T at FL270.  It is pressurized, otherwise it is Acclaim-like in performance. Above 18,000 and with the ice diflector / bypass turned on the P46T will climb slower than an Acclaim.  

 

 

 

[carusoam]

Weather question...

What is a typical climb through stable icing conditions?  A couple thousand feet?  (A few minutes of climb time for the Acclaim)

East coast gets some pretty stable conditions that would make FIKI very usable.

We also get some less stable conditions coming across the Great Lakes that can really generate a more challenging situation.

Ice / weather knowledge is going to be helpful for this.  Frozen Skew-T charts?

Best regards,

-a-

[ArtVandelay]

How long does it take an Acclaim to climb to 21K?

[Jerry 5TJ]

ATC routing is another consideration.  From N Ca headed N or E you're likely to get a direct clearance to your requested altitude in the FL.  Head S and you're likely to get step climb clearances.  Their preferred level may be where there's ice.  

Your available rate of climb is moot if you can't get cleared higher.  

I really have found though if you tell a controller you're accumulating ice they will listen up. 

[carqwik]

The inertial separator is permanent in the P46T...fyi. 

[Jerry 5TJ]

19 minutes ago, carqwik said:

The inertial separator is permanent in the P46T...fyi. 

True for Meridian. Not, however in the JetProp version, like mine. 

[FoxMike]

FIKI is a real asset when the weather is a problem.  It however cannot make all the problems melt away.  You might find that trying to top a system will put you into unacceptable headwinds. O2 becomes more of a problem in the 20's.  You use more and you need to monitor it continually (can add measurably to the workload).  Communication with a mask on can be a problem which requires you to repeat your requests and  route amendments several times.  If it is really cold outside the heater/defroster will be marginal.  If you are truly on top of a mess you are pretty much going to have to live with the situation until the tops get lower.  The airplane can handle the high altitude but the occupants are not necessarily happy.  If your O2 saturation gets a little low and you run a gas tank dry or the O2 bottle dry you will have a real problem.  Flying in a situation like this requires the airplane and pilot to be to be in good shape, ready to deal with problems that could quickly turn life threatening.  Being on top is not always what it is cracked up to be.  

In a weather situation you have described I would be climbing out looking for a few thousand feet between layers where I could stay out of the ice.  With TKS if you get back into ice you can always turn the system on and modify your plan (fish for another layer).  One more thing, all the Acclaims have G1000s.  If you know the system well it will not add much to your workload but if you are new to it route changes can be a real problem.  

A turbo, FIKI and storm avoidance make most weather flying possible but not always easy.  How do I know this?  I have been flying turboed, deice airplanes for many years and currently drive a Bravo.   If you buy an Acclaim you will need to get real comfortable with it before you take on the challenging weather.  Good luck!

 

[Jerry 5TJ]

17 hours ago, teejayevans said:

How long does it take an Acclaim to climb to 21K?

A more conservative version is the  question:  "How fast can an Acclaim climb while maintaining the minimum ice penetration speed (per POH) of at least 120 KIAS?"  

 

[M20F]

2 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

A more conservative version is the  question:  "How fast can an Acclaim climb while maintaining the minimum ice penetration speed (per POH) of at least 120 KIAS?"  

 

My guess is fast because my F will do 500 or better up to FL180 at minimum.  I fly an SR22 and TKS is great for punching through a layer of ice to get on top of it.  In the example you gave I wouldn't have any problems doing it if I was going to 230+ provided it was just ice and not freezing rain or something crazy.  

As pointed out flying in the 20's is not my favorite though because Mooney heaters (and all single heaters) suck, wearing a mask sucks, and physically it is tiring because you stress about dying due to hypoxia almost constantly.  That said if you buy an Acclaim that is where you need to be flying it, otherwise you should get an Ovation. 

Edited May 8, 2016 by M20F

[Joe Zuffoletto]

On 5/7/2016 at 7:42 AM, RobertE said:

It's a rainy day in Nor Cal so I'm dreaming of my next aircraft, which will likely be a FIKI Acclaim due to its near all weather capability.  But does it really have that capability?  As an example, today's forecast is 2K broken, showers, tops 21K.  Surely there is ice somewhere in that cloud column.

is this a flight you would comfortably make via climbing to on top?  Would it depend on how thick the expected icing layer?  Would this be a no go unless you were comfortable motoring on below the freezing level?  Bottom line, does this aircraft really allow travel in many situations that would be unwise without FIKI and a 25K ceiling, or not?  Thanks.

When I lived in NorCal I made several trips to SoCal in these conditions with my FIKI Encore. As long as tops were no higher than FL220 I would go and plan to cruise in bright sunshine on top. In the winter I would pick up light to moderate rime for maybe 1000' in the climb/descent, but I would always notify ATC when this was the case and request an expedited climb/descent, which they always granted. In the meantime the TKS kept the control surfaces clear.

Haven't done it yet in my FIKI Acclaim, but I certainly wouldn't hesitate. I'm in Orange County right now and am heading to Petaluma tomorrow (Monday). But I absolutely would have flown to Petaluma this morning as long as minimums were high enough to shoot an approach.

FIKI Mooneys are awesome for flying up and down the West Coast in almost all weather.

[ArtVandelay]

My understanding is if ATC balks at request to climb,descend, following it up with telling you'll accept a heading change will do the trick, I've never had to try it

[Cruiser]

10 hours ago, Jerry 5TJ said:

A more conservative version is the  question:  "How fast can an Acclaim climb while maintaining the minimum ice penetration speed (per POH) of at least 120 KIAS?"  

 

I believe an Acclaim can maintain 1000'+ ROC at +12o KIAS all the way up. 

[Joe Zuffoletto]

4 hours ago, Cruiser said:

I believe an Acclaim can maintain 1000'+ ROC at +12o KIAS all the way up. 

That's true. But I usually plan on 700-800fpm at 135KIAS. The TKS is more effective at lower angles of attack.