Mooney "Trapped on Top"

[201er]

Very well made video and a suspenseful story. Especially close to home cause it involves a Mooney. Worth the 15 minute watch and I look forward to a dialogue on the topic.

 

 

[bonal]

I saw this a while back an excellent reenactment. Some times we get into discussions about the worth of AOPA and the work they do to promote safety has few if any equal.

[Bryan1016]

Wow. Takeaways:

1. Fuel good.

2. Mooney glide good.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MyNameIsNobody]

Great Stuff.  Declare.  Live.  

I got caught on top VFR.  Weather called for scattered and it was solid at 3,000.  Told Tower my situation.  They lined me up and said "see that hole". I saw it...wink wink.  Thin layer.  NEVER AGAIN...

[Shadrach]

Glad he made it. He is one lucky SOB. Perhaps some of the events were glossed over, but it sure seems like he could have done more to increase his chances after realizing his situation. I would think slowing down and reducing fuel burn would be first order of business when there's concern that running out of fuel is a possibility. He was also GPS equiped but seemed unable to navigate in the soup without vectors. We have a lot of guys on the field that are similar to how I imagine this guy.  They're just comfortable enough doing what they do and they stay just current enough to handle that work load (as long as nothing goes wrong). We have some instructors that do them no favors by only demanding the minimum in a flight review.  Lot's of folks let their IFR currency lapse. But there's a difference between not having met the requirements to be technically current and not being able to shoot an approach through 3000' thick deck to 2000'AGL MVFR conditions underneith. I'm not trying to be a dick, but I would have expected a bit more from a 30+year instrument rated pilot in an owned complex airplane. I found this tale a bit disconcerting. I wonder if there was any enforcement action.

[1524J]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

 We have a lot of guys on the field that are similar to how I imagine this guy.  There just comfortable enough doing what they do and they'd stay just current enough to handle that work load (as long as nothing goes wrong). We have some instructors that do them no favors by only demanding the minimum in a flight review.  

So.....as difficult as this was too admit.....I'm not too far off from this statement. IFR certified, but let it lapse....local CFI's who know me well and we just hit the basics.....had partners on the plane so not worried about it sitting in the hanger.....would like to believe I would've/could've handle the situation better in the video because I've always been comfortable flying hard IFR in the past.....but it's been awhile.

The Cirrus going down in Florida was my wake-up call. For whatever reason, I could see myself in that unfortunate situation. But.....I'm in the process of fixin' the problem. Cut a deal with a great CFI, allowing him access to the plane, in return for whipping my backside into shape. Man's gotta' know his limitations!

[midlifeflyer]

@1524J brought up lapsed IFR currency. I let mine lapse, but only once.

During the lapse, I encountered a broken cloud deck. Choosing to stay under it I was continuously worried by my proximity to terrain and towers. Although clearly not what the pilot in the story ran into, what would have been an incredibly easy IFR flight turned into a nerve-wracking VFR one.

[Jeff_S]

I don't know the weather patterns in the NW as well, but seems like he was flying into the back side of a High so that's going to suck moisture off the ocean and into the mountains...a perfect recipe for what he found. Also, points out that XMWX METARs can be up to an hour old, and conditions change. 

On the glide-in, he said he kept raising the nose to keep altitude...a perfectly understandable reaction and one that I think we would all do. However, I think the real answer to clearing the blast barrier would be to actually lower the nose to gain airspeed, and then turn that back into altitude when needed to get over the barrier. Glider pilots can probably attest to this technique, or aerobatics guys. While I can sit here in my arm chair and say "I read about that in Stick and Rudder!" I realize actually doing it for real, without having practiced first, would be a real mental challenge.

[201er]

To his defense, the airplane they show in the simulation is a pimped out J with HSI, IFR GPS, electric gear, and six pack panel. We as Mooney guys should realize that in fact he's sitting in an older C model with the clusterfuck panel and what looks like a VFR or basic GPS.

One concerning point was when he said he only flies 30-40 hours a year! He wasn't only improficient at instrument flying, it's hard to say he wad proficient at flying an airplane at all! He didn't remember how to communicate or use the tools in front of him. If it weren't for the brilliant work of ATC, he himself admitted he wouldn't be alive.

But with a 2000ft ceiling, at least before the engine quit, he should have been able to navigate himself down through it without any help (say the radio quit).

[Steve Dietrich]

I'm confused about the comment that the vacuum pump would fail while the engine is still rotating . 

Instruction to lower gear  should have been held until he was over the threshold .

I realize it's easy to be a Monday AM quarterback

[FlyDave]

The good thing is he asked for help. It was a bit late in the scenario but he did ask for help.

Mike - I disagree with your statement that he didn't remember how to communicate. His communication was fine, he just couldn't run the avionics and fly the plane at the same time. I think his recognizing he couldn't do this and just asked for vectors was a smart move. The first thing you do when something goes wrong - fly the airplane.

The closer he got to his destination the more the deck got stacked against him. Degrading weather, poor IFR skills/proficient and low fuel is a bad combination. I think Ross hit on a key point - when you realize your getting into trouble reduce power and FF to stretch what you have in the tanks.

[Yetti]

Back up the timeline to.  "Hey that is socked in, let me go check here, let me check here" "Oh shoot I am low on fuel call ATC"

[kevinw]

Good video, saw it a while back also. Reminds me of this article I read online a few weeks ago. Never be afraid to ask for help. http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/i-learned-about-flying/asking-help

[1524J]

I think the unkown in these types of situations are how are we going to handle the stress levels that clearly are going to spike when when something unexpected happens. I'd like to know if the communications between ATC and the pilot are re-creations or recordings of the actual event. If it's the actual event, I think his voice was fairly calm given the circumstances. Reviewing the events in Florida, the pilot did the opposite of the instructions given him by tower. Part of the issue there was you could clearly hear the stress in the controllers voice. Compare that to the voice of the controllers in this video. It was a split second decision vs this senecio where there was time to think. But that's the kicker......are we going to be able to think clearly or react properly when the crap hits the fan? In either case, I'm convinced the amount of recent time/training we've had behind the stick will have a great impact on our ability to react properly. I've convinced myself that I have to push my limits, or get a CFI who will push them so that I practice the engine outs, unusual attitudes, ect. with more frequency than every two years. Left to myself, I'm not going there.

[1524J]

1 hour ago, Steve Dietrich said:

I'm confused about the comment that the vacuum pump would fail while the engine is still rotating . 

Instruction to lower gear  should have been held until he was over the threshold .

I realize it's easy to be a Monday AM quarterback

That and telling him to descend and "maintain" 2000 feet. That's a bit of a challenge with an engine out.

[Seth]

I too watched this a while back.  Good lessons.  Know when to call for help!

 

-Seth

[midlifeflyer]

Just now, 1524J said:

That and telling him to descend and "maintain" 2000 feet. That's a bit of a challenge with an engine out.

They have their procedures. I had a loss of power in the clouds over the Rockies. While descending toward a possible landing site, ATC said, "We need you at 10,000 feet" as I dropped below. My response was, "I need me at 10,000 feet too!"  

[bonal]

CCC we all know it but most importantly will we do when it hits the fan

[kerry]

 

excellent video.  I really enjoy watching and learning from these type of occurrences.  A couple of years ago I spoke with a Mooney pilot that lost power flying above Fresno and it was socked to the surface.  He said he was completely blind and the airplane landed in a orchard of fruit trees.  Luckily he was centered between the trees and was not injured.   

[Shadrach]

11 hours ago, 201er said:

To his defense, the airplane they show in the simulation is a pimped out J with HSI, IFR GPS, electric gear, and six pack panel. We as Mooney guys should realize that in fact he's sitting in an older C model with the clusterfuck panel and what looks like a VFR or basic GPS.

One concerning point was when he said he only flies 30-40 hours a year! He wasn't only improficient at instrument flying, it's hard to say he wad proficient at flying an airplane at all! He didn't remember how to communicate or use the tools in front of him. If it weren't for the brilliant work of ATC, he himself admitted he wouldn't be alive.

But with a 2000ft ceiling, at least before the engine quit, he should have been able to navigate himself down through it without any help (say the radio quit).

Listen to the exchange.  He clearly states that he has GPS (with weather I believe), that the aircraft is IFR equipped and that he isIFR rated but not current.   I would venture a guess that nearly half the pilot's on this board get less than 50hrs a year.  50hrs a year is more than 1hr a week. 35hrs a year is more than 1 hr every 2 weeks. I'm not saying that it's ideal, but I would never call someone who flies 35hrs a year "not VFR current" on time alone, especially if they live in the West where they likely sit out a large part of the winter. It all depends on what type of flying you do in those 35hrs.  You must think that a large percentage of non-student renters are not current.  Enjoy your time as a DINK. I was in the same place just a year ago. The growth of family, business/career and everything else eats your time away and then one day you notice you've not ridden your motorcycle in 3 years or you didn't ski one day of the season or your MT Bike never left the garage. Leisure time becomes a precious thing! 

[Shadrach]

9 hours ago, Steve Dietrich said:

I'm confused about the comment that the vacuum pump would fail while the engine is still rotating . 

Instruction to lower gear  should have been held until he was over the threshold .

I realize it's easy to be a Monday AM quarterback

I've never lost an engine, but I'm not sure at which RPM a prop windmills.  I know that I don't really pull adequate Vac at taxi RPM.

[201er]

30 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

50hrs a year is more than 1hr a week. 35hrs a year is more than 1 hr every 2 weeks. I'm not saying that it's ideal, but I would never call someone who flies 35hrs a year "not VFR current" on time alone, especially if they live in the West where they likely sit out a large part of the winter. It all depends on what type of flying you do in those 35hrs.  You must think that a large percentage of non-student renters are not current.  Enjoy your time as a DINK.

All it takes is 3 weeks of not flying and I start feeling pretty rusty in my own airplane!

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, 201er said:

All it takes is 3 weeks of not flying and I start feeling pretty rusty in my own airplane!

I agree that 3 weeks is different from 3 days, but I would not hesitate to embark on a 500nm VFR trip after a 3 week break.

[gsxrpilot]

I gotta say, I'm thankful to have the time, resources and equipment to be current and competent. I let my IFR currency lapse once and will make a concerted effort not to let it happen again. It took quite a bit of effort and two very good CFII's to get current and competent again.

Today I logged 1.2 hours. 1.1 of it was IMC. I launched into 400 OVC and landed 93 nm later in 600 OVC.  I broke out at 600 ft. and without changing pitch, direction, speed, or descent rate... landed. It was a thing of beauty.

As a GA pilot who only flies for the enjoyment, I feel very blessed to be able to log the hours with the required regularity to be able to make safe use of this very capable airplane.

[carusoam]

For those who have had the lapsed IR...

How lapsed was it? And What was required to clean the rust off of the lapsed IR?

Best regards,

-a-