Standard fuel, long body....dropped back to 89 gallons

[Tony Armour]

Just noticed when looking at the new Acclaim numbers. Same for a new Ovation too. When did the standard fuel drop back to 89 gallons ? I'm guessing the reason was to make the numbers look better on paper (smart) but not sure when they went back to 89. What was the high standard ? 96 gallons ?? My 93 is 89 gallons.

[Bravoman]

I thought it was always 89 unless you got after market long range tanks.

[carusoam]

100+ gallons for the full tank, filled to the top skin.  Time is needed to allow for the last 5 gal to displace air out the vents...

anything less, is usually related to the vent hole or slot in the side of the fuel neck.  The Eagle was the pioneer of lower fuel volumes using this technique.  Several hangar elves have been in communication of how to drill holes in-situ without getting metal shavings to fall into the tank.

Extended range tanks for the LB is 130.  WnB becomes an issue of full tanks and full seats with full sized adults...

Sound familiar?

Best regards,

-a-

[aviatoreb]

It is kind of funny for the M20V they are selling 89gal as standard tanks and 100gal as long range tanks.  I wonder if the Monroy 30 extra gallons is still available as STC for the M20V?

[Danb]

6 minutes ago, carusoam said:

100+ gallons for the full tank, filled to the top skin.  Time is needed to allow for the last 5 gal to displace air out the vents...

anything less, is usually related to the vent hole or slot in the side of the fuel neck.  The Eagle was the pioneer of lower fuel volumes using this technique.  Several hangar elves have been in communication of how to drill holes in-situ without getting metal shavings to fall into the tank.

Extended range tanks for the LB is 130.  WnB becomes an issue of full tanks and full seats with full sized adults...

Sound familiar?

Best regards,

-a-

Yep my LB has 130 gal.capability, both my wife and I are just under 300 lbs. combined so we top off and go for six hours, and for some reason my bladder holds out. I know the argument for those without LR tanks is they can't fly that far, just fill up what you need and go. 

[carusoam]

280 hp and 89 gal. Tanks...

What year did they pull that data from?  

These two technical details are just outdated info.  I get the feeling that the website is going to get some updates.

It is possible that they prefer some air at the top of the tank.  More room for less error in filling and expansion.

There is still time to update the lone ranger's eye covering paint scheme too.

Best regards,

-a-

[Deb]

Richard Simile said it was for marketing. It "adds" 78 lbs to full fuel payload. The pre-2014 Ovation 2 and Acclaim hold 102 gals, with the Monroy (Piloto) option to 130 gals. As Anthony said, the standard used to be 89 gals. The max landing weight is still 3200 lbs.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

My Acclaim holds 102 gallons. 89 is standard; 102 was a factory option. There's a supplemental section in the POH for the larger tanks.

[aviatoreb]

3 minutes ago, Joe Zuffoletto said:

My Acclaim holds 102 gallons. 89 is standard; 102 was a factory option. There's a supplemental section in the POH for the larger tanks.

Oh - I didn't know.

There is a Monroy STC available on many Mooneys that seals off another bay inside the wings.  Is that STC available to an Acclaim to add 30gal? That sure would be a long range Mooney.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

2 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

Oh - I didn't know.

There is a Monroy STC available on many Mooneys that seals off another bay inside the wings.  Is that STC available to an Acclaim to add 30gal? That sure would be a long range Mooney.

Yes, I know of a couple Acclaims that are boosted to 132 gallons. Great long-distance machines for flying solo! 

[aviatoreb]

7 minutes ago, Joe Zuffoletto said:

Yes, I know of a couple Acclaims that are boosted to 132 gallons. Great long-distance machines for flying solo! 

Wow - indeed.  So what is the still air range?

I would guess you could almost climb to FL25 on a good tail wind day and fly from LAX to ATL.

[Awful_Charlie]

89USG is standard

102USG with the factory extended option

120/132USG with the Monroy mod - the difference depends on if you have speed brakes fitted

[rgpilot]

My Ovation 2 DX legally holds 89 gallons. There are about two inches of extensions inside the filler openings to prevent filling to 102 gallons. If your patient, you can fill it to 102.

[PMcClure]

1 hour ago, Deb said:

Richard Simile said it was for marketing. It "adds" 78 lbs to full fuel payload. The pre-2014 Ovation 2 and Acclaim hold 102 gals, with the Monroy (Piloto) option to 130 gals. As Anthony said, the standard used to be 89 gals. The max landing weight is still 3200 lbs.

You mean people buying a $750k plane are too stupid to do the math?

[aviatoreb]

5 minutes ago, PMcClure said:

You mean people buying a $750k plane are too stupid to do the math?

Maybe they are too smart to admit they did the math?

[Deb]

14 minutes ago, PMcClure said:

You mean people buying a $750k plane are too stupid to do the math?

I was quoting Richard Simile. I personally don't think this is a clever approach. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

[mike_elliott]

53 minutes ago, rgpilot said:

My Ovation 2 DX legally holds 89 gallons. There are about two inches of extensions inside the filler openings to prevent filling to 102 gallons. If your patient, you can fill it to 102.

Is that you Rob?

[StevenL757]

28 minutes ago, rgpilot said:

My Ovation 2 DX legally holds 89 gallons. There are about two inches of extensions inside the filler openings to prevent filling to 102 gallons. If your patient, you can fill it to 102.

Correct.  I just went through legally converting from 89USG to 102USG about 7 months ago.  With the existing 44.5 necks, you're not prevented from filling to 51USG per se - you just need to work a bit longer to fill them to that (the newer necks have a mark at "44.5USG" on the lower filler opening, and a "51USG" marking on the upper portion).  We replaced the existing filler necks with two new ones, each having a V-shaped notch cut out below the filler openings to allow filling to the upper-lip without having to "burp" them as you fill over 44.5USG.

 The kit gets you the two metal necks, a couple of placards for the fuel caps, and a plastic ring corresponding to 51.0USG per side that replaces the one around the fuel shutoff valve on the floor.  Along with that, we re-calibrated the quantities and changed the JPI EDM900 to display 51USG per tank.

Folks who have 1994 through 1998 airplanes with the mechanical Sigma-Tek fuel quantity indicators who choose to legally convert to 102USG will need to find a way to display correct fuel quantity.  Not sure how or if you can change the quantity indication on the '99 through '04 Moritz gauges.

[kmyfm20s]

Dang! Where are you all flying to that you need this range? I have topped off to the full tank level at cheap fuel stops but I think my longest flights in the Screaming Eagle are around 5.5 maybe 6 hours. The 89 gallons gave me more than enough legal reserve. I bought my plane used with resealed tanks and I can get 99.8 gallons in it. I drained the tanks completely and then added fuel incrementally to calibrate the sight gauges on the wings and develope a dip stick. The sight gauges where low compared to my calibration and I attribute that to the tank resealed. I recommend everyone do this. I have much better confidence in my fuel calibration. I was shocked to find out in the Eagle POH that if I filled my tanks to cover the bottom of the stand pipe that it should be 75 gallons. When I did my calibration it was in the low 60's similar to what my previous J was, basically 45 minute to an hour of discrepancy. I flight plan at 13.5 gph at 173ktas and always land with slightly more fuel and slightly faster than I planned for. It is amazing how far you can travel in these machines!

[donkaye]

I had owned my plane for about 15 years before I found out that the bottom of the neck was 44.5 gallons and not the top of the neck.  It never really spelled it out in the POH.  I questioned Bill Wheat at one Homecoming how with the same wing the later model long Bodies had either 100 or 102 gallons.  He admitted at that time the difference is what top off meant.  The earlier long bodies were certified at 89 gallons, although some of the later ones could get the STC for the higher gallonage.  For some reason mine was not one of them.  I still don't understand the difference between the ones with 102 gallons and those with 100 gallons.  It is, after all, the same wing.  I do understand the difference between the ones with the V in the neck that allow the top off to occur more quickly.  The bottom line, though, is that my airplane will hold 100 gallons, albeit that it takes a little longer to fill to the top.

Recently I did a Bravo training in an airplane that had been upgraded with an MVP 50.  With the MVP 50 you can preset several levels.  This was to be used for airplanes with aux tanks.  However, this airplane had the two levels set to 100 and 89.  I thought "That was interesting!"  The floats max out at 44.5 per side, but the full flow transducer has no such limits.  So the fuel could be topped off  and set to 100 gallons and the tanks would read 44.5 each until the 11 gallons were burned off both sides, then the calibrated tanks reading would closely match the fuel flow balance reading.

I found that more than interesting.....

[Joe Zuffoletto]

17 hours ago, aviatoreb said:

Wow - indeed.  So what is the still air range?

I would guess you could almost climb to FL25 on a good tail wind day and fly from LAX to ATL.

Still air range in my plane with 102 gallons onboard, FL180 and 70LOP: Denver to Puerto Vallarta, with a little bit to spare. Observed this on my G1000 range display on a recent trip from Denver to Cabo. With 30 more gallons you could probably just make it to Acapulco.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

6 hours ago, donkaye said:

I still don't understand the difference between the ones with 102 gallons and those with 100 gallons.  It is, after all, the same wing.

My plane holds 102, but only 100 is usable. Maybe the confusion starts there.

[Jeff_S]

I'm glad to hear someone finally talk about the "time needed for air displacement" in the tanks.  Because of an annoying wing-walk seep at more than 30 gallons, I seldom put more than 35 in the right side, but I'll often fill the left side to the top, and I always hear some gurgling sounds when I do this. I've taken to bumping the wing with my hip to get is sloshing around in there, and that helps me add more gas.

[PaulM]

The max fuel number depends on your model and the year that the tank pipe was designed.  (and the stickers) 

The differences are outlined in the POH supplements: (Bravo)

http://www.mooney.com/en/pdf/51%20Gallon%20Fuel%20Tanks.pdf

"The fuel tank stand pipe is marked at the bottom edge to show that 44.5 gal (168.45 li) is contained in the tank. An additional 5.6 gallons of fuel may be added up to the mark at the top of the wedge shaped slot in the stand pipe for a total of 51.0 gallons (193.0 li.) in each tank. "

The new filler necks have a wedge shaped cutout that allows the air to escape from the top of the tank in a reasonable amount of time.  

According to this supplement:

Minimum Fuel Grade (Color) .......................................100 LL (Blue) or 100 Octane (Green)

Total Capacity ................................................................108 U. S. Gal. (408.8 liters)

Usable ..................................................................... 102.0 U. S. Gal. (386.1 liters) 

 

The full 102 is usable... but rumor has it that you need to be very patient in getting it right up to the top of the notch, and that for usual operations and standard FBO fillers should not count on that last 2 gallons.  

The G1000 system also has 3 possible "max" settings for the fuel totalizer (89, 102 & 130)  (set by avionics shop).   I do not expect that the fuel float gauge indicators are changed for the 102G.. (they indicate > 45 when full)..  as for the Monroy 130 STC, I seem to remember that the Supplement had a chart.  Indicator says X.. Tanks hold Y.   

Mooney understood that getting that last 2 gallons was tough, so they changed the decals..to this (Ovation + Acclaim) 

http://www.mooney.com/en/pdf/SUPP0018.pdf

which only lists 100G (106 Unusable) 

Which is why some say 89.. some 102 and others 100..  and they are all correct. 

 

[aviatoreb]

Separate related question.  Until the long body, the M20K was 75gal and M20J 60 something, and less from there to earlier models.  My understanding is that all the metal mooneys since M20B have entirely the same wing, except perhaps details about landing gear and wing tips.  What did they do different inside the wing to make these essentially incremental changes all the way up to 100 within what seems to be the same bays, without sealing of extra bays as the monroy kit does.