C/E Model Wanted - 1965 or newer

[glafaille]

I'm looking for the fastest IFR C/E model I can buy for under $55,000.  The mission is 1200 nm each way trips 4 times per year plus some shorter weekend excursions for myself and my wife plus bags.  We are 5' 8" and 5' 2" tall and travel light.  We need to be able to travel the 1200 nm leg in one day in less than 14 hours chock to chock including fuel stops. I think about 150k cruise should do it easily even with a little headwind.

 

Here is my wish list:

No corrosion

Low to mid- time engine and prop

Last Overhaul by reputable shop

Good Autopilot - Stec or similar, altitude hold preferred

Bladder tanks or total reseal within last 10 years

Basic but recent avionics - I don't need and don't care to maintain the whiz-bang stuff - I have an Ipad

Instruments arranged in "6 pack" order

Excellent maintenance history - Service Center or FBO

Serviceable paint and interior

Speed Mods - Looking for 150 Knot cruise

Engine monitor with fuel flow and carb temp a plus

1965 or newer - Someone told me engine access is easier with later models.

Less than $55,000

 

I know it will be difficult to find a plane that hits every point but if you have something close, lets talk about it.

 

 

Edited December 8, 2015 by glafaille
Changed title to add E model aircraft

[flight2000]

I just did a flight like that a few months ago when I moved my plane from Kansas City to Reno (roughly 1250 NM).  Left at 1130 CDT and pulled into Reno at 1958 PDT and that included fuel/rest stops in Cheyenne, WY and Ogden, UT (about an hour at each stop).  Block time for the trip was just under 12 hours. 

Point is I would be also be looking for an E model, which will be a tick faster than the C model in the same price range.  I also just prefer the fuel injected IO-360 versus the 180hp O-360.  Nothing against them, just my personal preference.

Good luck with the search, that was the part I enjoyed the most.   

Cheers,

Brian

P.S. Pulled the trip data below from Flightaware:

ACTIVITY LOG:

Date	Aircraft	Origin	Destination	Departure	Arrival	Duration
25-Sep-2015	M20P/G	Ogden-Hinckley (KOGD)	Reno/Tahoe Intl (KRNO)	18:14 MDT	19:58 PDT	2:44
25-Sep-2015	M20P/G	Cheyenne Rgnl (KCYS)	Ogden-Hinckley (KOGD)	14:32 MDT	17:08 MDT	2:36
25-Sep-2015	M20P/G	Sherman Aaf (KFLV)	Cheyenne Rgnl (KCYS)	11:30 CDT	13:36 MDT	3:05

[urbanti]

Haha flight2000 beat me to it.... the C model you're looking for is called an E or a J!

Good luck

Tim

[glafaille]

OK.  Guys thanks for the advice.

I added the E model to the title.

[urbanti]

I think you should be able to look at M20Es in that price range.

Unsure if you'll get a modern autopilot with altitude hold.

Call around to the bigger MSC's and tell them you're looking for a decent E and they may turn you on to a well-cared-for bird that isn't even on the market yet.

If you want suggestions on who to contact PM me,

best

Tim

 

[Bob_Belville]

I bought my '66 M20E 4 years ago. As purchased it met all your requirements and more. (I since have added some whiz bangs that would take it to a higher price range but I would think an E would fit your mission perfectly.) I do not get the impression that the market is higher than it was 4 years ago.

[urbanti]

Daver328 - No disrespect to the C models!

I was solely looking at the cruise requirement of 150 KTAS.  

In all of the objective tests online I've never seen a C do that kinda cruise.

Agree C's are very nice airplanes

best

Tim

[steingar]

I wanted an E, but at the end of the day I doubt I'd much notice the trip difference between my C and an E, for most flights its just a few minutes.  Just wasn't worth the premiums I was seeing.

[bonal]

I think if I was solo and had under 50% fuel I could break into 150 knots but with full fuel the 2 of us and bags we get an honest 140 to 145 I think that for most flights that's pretty negligible in terms of total flight time. I think for the price you are looking to spend there are good E's but better C's . As I have said before being aware of Mooney Space puts you ahead of the curve. Have fun. One of the things I like most about when I win the Lottery is going airplane shopping

[gsxrpilot]

My C is everything you want and more, including the 150kt speed. I gave $54K for it 18 months ago and it's not for sale.  They do exist, but are rare.

[rob]

My old C was also a 150kt airplane, but I think the avionics may have been too much for your tastes (Aspen/430/etc). It also sold for less than 55, to my dismay. 

[glafaille]

The plane I fly for my job has plenty of fancy gizmos and I like them well enough, but after replacing an MFD a few months ago for $10,000 exchange, I have no interest in having such things on my own plane unless I win the lottery.

At the rate technology changes it may not take long for todays latest and greatest to become obsolete and difficult/expensive to repair or replace.

There are millions of air driven DGs and AIs out there that will probably remain cheap and available for a very long time.

As an old ex night freight pilot, the old stuff is comfortable, like a well worn pair of slippers.  The new stuff is nice but the old stuff still gets the job done.

[Marauder]

The plane I fly for my job has plenty of fancy gizmos and I like them well enough, but after replacing an MFD a few months ago for $10,000 exchange, I have no interest in having such things on my own plane unless I win the lottery.

At the rate technology changes it may not take long for todays latest and greatest to become obsolete and difficult/expensive to repair or replace.

There are millions of air driven DGs and AIs out there that will probably remain cheap and available for a very long time.

As an old ex night freight pilot, the old stuff is comfortable, like a well worn pair of slippers.  The new stuff is nice but the old stuff still gets the job done.

That's what the last steam gauge guy said as he was getting in my plane. His girlfriend told me yesterday he is smashing all his change piggy banks and piling the change up on the kitchen table.

I flew a lot of years with steam and they work. I also am a gizmo guy and have seen the benefit of the newer technology. A recent trip into Leesburg VA VFR was a great example. I'm navigating the entry under the Class B and above the hilly terrain. Having the glass show the B's ring altitudes and the terrain background change from black to yellow indicating my proximity to terrain was just another confirmation that for me, I made the right decision.

Could I have done that with the iPad and steam, heck yeah! But are we going to use "too much money" as an excuse to having fun?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[glafaille]

Don't get me wrong!  I LOVE the cool electronic stuff available now, awesome power at your fingertips and many times more information IF you know how to retrieve it.  As I have never owned an airplane before I am being very conservative in my budgeting.  

Complex systems sometimes develop nasty gremelins that require much maintenance magic from highly specialized wizards.

My budget has sentenced me to steam!  But I do marvel at what many of the folks here have done to improve their birds.

[Bob_Belville]

I flew thousands of hours back in the day with steam, a single EGT gauge, VOR/DME/ADF. I also used a slide rule, log tables, and Encyclopedia Britannica. The newer technologies make cross country flying much easier and safer. It allows the pilot more time to monitor his engine, the ever changing weather, and continuously update his "what if" options. It helps him stay clear of the ever expanding SUAs and hostile terrain.

Did I mention that technology makes flying safer?

 

[rbridges]

9 hours ago, glafaille said:

The plane I fly for my job has plenty of fancy gizmos and I like them well enough, but after replacing an MFD a few months ago for $10,000 exchange, I have no interest in having such things on my own plane unless I win the lottery.

At the rate technology changes it may not take long for todays latest and greatest to become obsolete and difficult/expensive to repair or replace.

There are millions of air driven DGs and AIs out there that will probably remain cheap and available for a very long time.

As an old ex night freight pilot, the old stuff is comfortable, like a well worn pair of slippers.  The new stuff is nice but the old stuff still gets the job done.

I kinda think the same thing, but with the cost of certification, I don't think things are going to change as quickly as they do for cars or the home.  How long has the GTN series been out?  Prior to that, the long in the tooth GNS series was the only certified game in town.  My 2 year old laptop's processor would run circles around what's in the GTN box right now.

I know things will improve, but I feel like you could safely buy a glass panel and be happy with it for a while.  Eventually, obsolescence will strike, but I don't think at the rate we see outside of aviation.

[glafaille]

I agree with everything you say Bob.  The ability to avoid SUA when VFR is especially nice.  Although I am looking for a capable IFR plane, I will not be flying hard IFR day or night in a 50 year old single engine aircraft.  But for getting above a cloud layer or down through one into VFR conditions, I'm all for it.  

I intend to file IFR for most flights but will avoid weather that will require shooting approaches.  I'm almost 60 years old and no longer feel the need to "push the envelope" although in my younger days I pushed it daily.  I was one lucky SOB!

[Bob_Belville]

14 minutes ago, glafaille said:

I agree with everything you say Bob.  The ability to avoid SUA when VFR is especially nice.  Although I am looking for a capable IFR plane, I will not be flying hard IFR day or night in a 50 year old single engine aircraft.  But for getting above a cloud layer or down through one into VFR conditions, I'm all for it.  

I intend to file IFR for most flights but will avoid weather that will require shooting approaches.  I'm almost 60 years old and no longer feel the need to "push the envelope" although in my younger days I pushed it daily.  I was one lucky SOB!

Amen. I'm 72. But I do fly an approach from time to time. And with Nexrad and Stormscope I do not hesitate to fly NC to ME and similar knowing I may be skirting some weather on trips that involves hundreds of miles and multiple days. 

(I do not use Ipads or that technology - just don't like knee pads or yoke mounted stuff, I'm from another era - but for under 2 AMU a portable GPS - 696 or 796 is great for situation awareness, heads up for SUA, minimum altitudes, nearest airport, waypoint info, XM music, backup to the certified panel stuff, and much more.)

[glafaille]

Awesome panel!  Amazing what can be done to breathe new life into an old airplane.  It's also nice to know that it will likely be a very long time before your plane will be one of those tied down in the grass and neglected.  You have done the Mooney community and older Mooney's in particular a great service.  For many years in the future she'll be strutting her stuff!

I too travel to Maine frequently, not so much this time of year, but June through October I get to spend some time in Rockland.  Nice place, nice people, great food, awesome weather (in the summer) and awesome sailing.  Worst part about Downeast Maine is trying to get through Wiskasset in the Summer!

[carusoam]

Funny things that add speed to a Mooney...

1) Larger tanks that allow you to fly direct, without stopping... (Thanks José)

2) GPS with updated database that allows flying direct in IMC, without zig-zagging through VORs... (Thanks big G?)

Sharing ideas,

-a-

[Marauder]

Don't get me wrong!  I LOVE the cool electronic stuff available now, awesome power at your fingertips and many times more information IF you know how to retrieve it.  As I have never owned an airplane before I am being very conservative in my budgeting.  

Complex systems sometimes develop nasty gremelins that require much maintenance magic from highly specialized wizards.

My budget has sentenced me to steam!  But I do marvel at what many of the folks here have done to improve their birds.

I think the initial cost of glass is obviously a decision point. For those like me on this site who have made the investment, we know we won't recover the costs. Nor will our heir's. Tough noogies for them, I earned the money. Not them.

The second fear is the cost of repairing the glass version. I spent $1,000 through 3 attempts to get my 20 year old Narco radio working. A refurbished Aspen is $1,500 and I heard that a Garmin out of warranty repair on a GTN is around $1,000. If the reliability is better, I'm okay with that.

But as Bob points out in a later reply, it really has improved the situational awareness and safety. My Aspen shows terrain and stormscope currently and will show the traffic & weather when I upgrade next year. And it will be in my scan, not on my iPad.

Trust me, when my shaking hand was writing that check, I had buyer's remorse. And my first few flights didn't help by trying to fly my now glass equipped Mooney from the backseat. Fast forward 3 years, no regrets. It really is impressive what this technology can do.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Bob_Belville]

8 hours ago, glafaille said:

Awesome panel!  Amazing what can be done to breathe new life into an old airplane.  It's also nice to know that it will likely be a very long time before your plane will be one of those tied down in the grass and neglected.  You have done the Mooney community and older Mooney's in particular a great service.  For many years in the future she'll be strutting her stuff!

I too travel to Maine frequently, not so much this time of year, but June through October I get to spend some time in Rockland.  Nice place, nice people, great food, awesome weather (in the summer) and awesome sailing.  Worst part about Downeast Maine is trying to get through Wiskasset in the Summer!

+1 on Wicasset! Blame it on Reds Eats. My brother in law lives in Bristol, down the peninsula from Damariscotta. I tie down at KIWI, nice folks, cheap gas, tie down is $25 for a week or a month. I guess you use KRKD? Love that little museum.

Oh, thanks for the kind words. My Mooney was born 50 years ago last month having racked up 2944 total hours in those 50 years. Barring mishap she should be good to go for many more years. 

[steingar]

If steam really were steam, I wouldn't mind using it in the slightest.  Steam is easy, you just heat water.  Our gauges aren't steam, they're vacuum, and vacuum is hard, nature abhors it.  Actually, that isn't true but it seems like it trying to generate and maintain a vacuum within the atmosphere.  Vacuum pumps are prone to break by their nature.  I start IFR this Spring, and I will also be "sentenced to steam".  Not happy about it, not because of the difficulty of use.  Things get hard the Stein gets going.  No, just the thought of vacuum loss in the clag with an airplane full of passengers.  i suspect I'll be practicing lots of partial panel.

[Hank]

I got my Instrument ticket using my steam gauge C. It's not too terribly difficult to fly, the hard part for me was the written test with questions about flight directors, caged AIs, ADFs and all the other instruments I've never flown with.

And just like your primary CFI liked pulling the throttle for you, your CFII will enjoy failing instruments and making you do partial panel work. That's a good thing, you want to be able to do it. Be sure to crosscheck during your normal scan, too. I really like instrument flying, especially at the top of the clouds with some in-and-out going on, it really gives you an impression of speed that you don't get on a CAVU day a mile and a half above the ground.

[glafaille]

Still Looking!