Thoughts on this Ovation conversion?

manoflamancha · October 11, 2015

Looking at this Mooney it's being marketed as an Ovation that started life as an M20L and had STC updates firewall forward:

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20R-OVATION/1988-MOONEY-M20R-OVATION/1400203.htm

is this a good deal or a Frankenplane that I should avoid? It's in my neck of the woods here in San Diego. How much is it really worth?

Cruiser · October 11, 2015

While the ad makes it very clear that the airframe is a M20L the fact that they advertise it as a M20R is somewhat misleading.

The data plate and registration remain a M20L model regardless of the modifications, that said, this plane is definitely a unique item. I asked the factory reps about model change vs options and they said it was strictly an FAA requirement. The model change makes it much more difficult for all involved when the fact is most all the parts are identical in manufacturing. Of course we are dealing with the government and specifically the FAA.

manoflamancha · October 11, 2015

As a single guy most of my flying is just me and one friend. Would you still consider this plane or keep looking?

fantom · October 11, 2015

That plane was seriously damaged during Hurricane Charlie. Somewhere I have a photo of it. I flew into Punta Gorda several days after the hurricane with emergency supplies. It was a mess!

Be very careful.

**mike_elliott** · October 11, 2015

As a single guy most of my flying is just me and one friend. Would you still consider this plane or keep looking?

If you were to get this plane, you wont be able to put one of Mauraders' girl friends in it for sure (but then again, I am not sure they will fit in a c130), and will have to limit your love life to 80# and less women.

manoflamancha · October 11, 2015

Well it would be an incentive to lose weight and date thin women

I'd need to get to 150lbs and date a 120lb lady

Marauder · October 11, 2015

If you were to get this plane, you wont be able to put one of Mauraders' girl friends in it for sure (but then again, I am not sure they will fit in a c130), and will have to limit your love life to 80# and less women.

Getting them in a C130 has never been the issue. Getting them unstuck and out required enormous amounts of butter and brute force.

manoflamancha · October 11, 2015

Thanks I'll be careful since according to the seller it was completely rebuilt after the hurricane. I'm looking at others since I really want an Ovation or Bravo not a Frankenplane.

**carusoam** · October 11, 2015

1) If you want an O, starting with a Franken plane with significant UL limitations will lead to financial dissapointment.

2) Planes at that location at that time went through significant legal / insurance issue regarding that hurricane.

3) I am not familiar with an STC that brings anything to an Ovation standard. Eagles are interchangeable, but nothing else...?

4) They at least list an STC. I would recommend reading it closely.

5) If it were an O with an IO550(N) it would be 310 HP if the plane had it's choice. It's propeller would be a Hartzell.

6) many of the Ls back then were being updated with water cooled Lycoming engines

7) the landing gear of the L was not strong enough to match the landing weight of the R and S. The idea of flying over-weight is interesting, but there is no longer an allotment for getting rusty when it comes to landing.

Do you feel lucky? - D. Harry

The TLS in Florida is looking better and better, no? Too far to visit?

- not a Franken plane

- not involved with a known mystery

- full pedigree

- lower price to acquire

- still requires a fair amount of work, PPI, Bravo update if desired...

best regards,

Edited October 11, 2015 by carusoam

**carusoam** · October 11, 2015

Ran out of space...

8) Rocket Engineering has STC for the J to make the Missile.

9) Rocket Engineering has an STC for the K to make the Rocket.

10) these STCs probably don't apply to the L

11) a lot of new things are listed including the micro vision engine instrumentation. It was new before JPI started the 700 series?

if you are interested in the plane call the owner or his representation and discuss these important details.

These would be the top 11 things that come to mind without thinking very deeply.

I might be biased.

best regards,

-a-

Edited October 11, 2015 by carusoam

manoflamancha · October 12, 2015

Thanks I'll pass on this Frankenplane and keep looking.

**Hank** · October 12, 2015

Ran out of space...

8) Rocket Engineering has STC for the J to make the Missile.

9) Rocket Engineering has an STC for the K to make the Rocket.

10) these STCs probably don't apply to the L

11) a lot of new things are listed including the micro vision engine instrumentation. It was new before JPI started the 700 series?

if you are interested in the plane call the owner or his representation and discuss these important details.

These would be the top 11 things that come to mind without thinking very deeply.

I might be biased.

best regards,

-a-

and you say your memory is acting up! :lol: that's quite an exhaustive list of Things to Watch For.

**carusoam** · October 12, 2015

Thanks, Hank!

The bump in memory coincides with a Mooney fly in this weekend. A huge cognitive workout with a few really cool add on benefits. I got the opportunity to bend the ear of a few Mooniacs. Special thanks to 201er (and the Mrs.) for spending some additional time sharing a few ideas with me as well.

My writing has expanded towards multiple sentences, in a pseudo paragraph style. Not just the individual thoughts, slowly pouring out, one line at a time. It's sort of like industrial continuous improvement theory at a personal level!

-a-

Edited October 12, 2015 by carusoam

kmyfm20s · October 12, 2015

I have seen this plane in person and it is as clean as they get! It doesn't change the fact it still a L and the associated problems that come with it. The original L have a single level for power control. The few STC converted planes maintain that. The L that crashed on the go around awhile back at KMYF was believed to be a complication with the linkage for the single lever power control. That is why it didn't develope power for the go around. When talking to the owner in the past it sounded like it was know problem.

Edited October 12, 2015 by kmyfm20s

manoflamancha · October 12, 2015

For me the deal killer is poor useful load. It makes zero sense to have 84g tanks with room for one person.

**carusoam** · October 12, 2015

It probably makes sense for somebody. Just not everybody looking to fill the four seats. The economics are a bit higher than our typical CB wants to endure.

Who would want to use something like this? A guy that wants to commute between offices in a sunnier (non-fiki) part of the world..?

Having the IO550 brings it more in line with modern Os and Eagles. The new owner can at least ask questions about operations with a group of other IO550 owners. The water cooled Lycoming alternative (liquid rockets) is not that large a group to share data with.

A good PPI is always recommended. This one, mandatory, because of the complexity.

Best regards,

-a-

manoflamancha · October 12, 2015

For the asking price one can buy a nice 252 or older Bravo in decent condition with useful load for 2-3 pax.

Magnum59l · October 30, 2015

Maybe a dumb question but do Rocket Engineering still Make Kits for the Mooney as on there website it's a discontinued item.

Sad really

**KSMooniac** · October 30, 2015

They no longer do conversions, only parts/support for Mooneys.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Magnum59l · October 30, 2015

Figured!!! thank you for your feedback.

manoflamancha · January 31, 2016

I decided to pass on the plane which is still for sale. I'd rather just pay a little more for a legit Ovation or Bravo than a Franken-Mooney!

**jetdriven** · January 31, 2016

It seems to be the biggest problem with the M20L conversion is it is basically an Ovation with a lighter gross weight..

**LANCECASPER** · January 31, 2016

8 hours ago, jetdriven said:

It seems to be the biggest problem with the M20L conversion is it is basically an Ovation with a lighter gross weight..

. . . and an unacceptable useful load.

A buyer may rationalize it and say well it's usually only me that flies, but they will still have to sell it someday and will have just as much trouble moving it as this owner.

CaptainAB · January 31, 2016

buy @LANCECASPER ovation. He is definitely the kind of owner you want to be able to buy after. If it's still for sale. IMHO

**LANCECASPER** · January 31, 2016

19 minutes ago, CaptainAB said:

buy @LANCECASPER ovation. He is definitely the kind of owner you want to be able to buy after. If it's still for sale. IMHO

Thanks for the kind words.

Yes the Ovation is still for sale. I bought a '93 TLS with 580 TT to bring up to par to replace the Ovation and ultimately end up having less into. However 2-1/2 months later and I still have two airplanes - so one of them must go: the Ovation or the TLS (which has had a ton of things done since I bought it: new Aero Comfort interior, exten$ive annual, panel upgrade, etc, etc)

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