Alex's M20D (continuous thread)

[Raptor05121]

I stopped by and got a status report. We are 75% done, and we've got about two more weeks to complete the interior refurbishment, as well as wiring the panel. The pricing is about where I expected. So time table is now late May. I will be flying by early June.

[Hector]

I stopped by and got a status report. We are 75% done, and we've got about two more weeks to complete the interior refurbishment, as well as wiring the panel. The pricing is about where I expected. So time table is now late May. I will be flying by early June.

Congrats. You are getting there. Just a little bit longer.

[DXB]

Awesome rehab job on this neglected old bird- can't wait to see it back the air!!

[mpg]

On 5/10/2016 at 1:02 PM, Raptor05121 said:

I stopped by and got a status report. We are 75% done, and we've got about two more weeks to complete the interior refurbishment, as well as wiring the panel. The pricing is about where I expected. So time table is now late May. I will be flying by early June.

You know I have followed your posts since you started searching for a plane,  this plane.

Every month I go back and read that thread and this thread,  so I know Everything!

I keep all the comings, goings, ups and downs, steps forward and the steps back,  fresh in my mind. 

Remember I thought about buying 44U for myself, so you should know I care about how this is turning out.

[Raptor05121]

Yeah I thought I should update everyone. Until now, I haven't flown for almost two months. I just eclipsed 100 hours and turned a new page in my logbook. I promised myself no more spending money renting other peoples planes, I will wait until mine was done.

I went over and checked on progress. Little work has been completed. The insulation is now in. Tanks are stripped but not sealed. Turns out a 182RG had a gear collapse on field and my IA was voluntold by the FAA to give his preliminary thoughts or something along those lines. Then Cessna wanted his opinion on what failed. By the time he did that, he had an approximate cost, and now the owner just said to get on with it, so he's been wrenching on that plane and mine at the same time.

I am leaving for a 2-week vacation in Alaska next weekend and I won't be back until July, so I'm HOPING that my plane will be ready before my 25th birthday (July 22).

In other news, I did complete my High Performance endorsement with 0.7hrs in a C182 Skylane. What an all-around wonderful aircraft. PLENTY of room, but ~13gph, OUCH!

[mpg]

On 3/7/2016 at 4:15 PM, Raptor05121 said:

So no flying to SnF for me. Mechanic says its "going to be another month" before he can get around to it.

How in the hell are you guys doing 2-3 day annuals? I'm going on 6 months....

I may regret being rude here ,  but,  at that quote you were really 7 months since beginning your pre buy...

And now as I write this, it has been 10 months.

As to getting it done in a few days,,,  those annuals happen fast because the owners Ride the A$$

of their mechanic and kick them in the balls anytime they slow down the work.

That is something that you have Never even come close to doing!!!

In fact,,  your Good New mechanic has screwed you more than your Bad Old mechanic,,  

and you have let it happen, over and over again and again...

Really it is Your fault!

I am sorry I sound so mean,,  but,, really you are not pushing your mechanic to do his job,

and he wont do work for you, unless you are there to kick him in the balls,

And you are going to take your kicking foot, and your disposable income,

and Vacation in Alaska for Two Weeks???!!!

Your mechanic is not going to work on your plane while you are gone,,  he has proved that, over and over!!

 

Just for fun please click and read this blog about a guy that bought a Charokee that hadnt been touched for 10 years! 

71/2 months after the sale she was ifr current and annualed, going for prove out flights..

http://www.thisoldcherokee.com/search?updated-max=2015-04-23T16:51:00-07:00&max-results=7&start=70&by-date=false

Edited June 16, 2016 by mpg

[bonal]

Well I have to agree with mpg on this I just started my annual and there are a bunch of things to correct as usual some I don't agree with and much I do we will be discussing the 49 issues they have found worst is a crack in the muffler canister even with that I doubt it will be more than a week to get done. We'll see. If you are using someone that has other things need doing you will often be put on a back burner. Taking it to a shop that doesn't want to tie up hangar space and wants to finish the job to get paid typically means things get done in a timely manner. Do what you think is best but I would by riding heard on this guy and look for another option once you are done for the future.

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, mpg said:

I may regret being rude here ,  but,  at that quote you were really 7 months since beginning your pre buy...

And now as I write this, it has been 10 months.

As to getting it done in a few days,,,  those annuals happen fast because the owners Ride the A$$

of their mechanic and kick them in the balls anytime they slow down the work.

That is something that you have Never even come close to doing!!!

In fact,,  your Good New mechanic has screwed you more than your Bad Old mechanic,,  

and you have let it happen, over and over again and again...

Really it is Your fault!

I am sorry I sound so mean,,  but,, really you are not pushing your mechanic to do his job,

and he wont do work for you, unless you are there to kick him in the balls,

And you are going to take your kicking foot, and your disposable income,

and Vacation in Alaska for Two Weeks???!!!

Your mechanic is not going to work on your plane while you are gone,,  he has proved that, over and over!!

 

Just for fun please click and read this blog about a guy that bought a Charokee that hadnt been touched for 10 years! 

71/2 months after the sale she was ifr current and annualed, going for prove out flights..

http://www.thisoldcherokee.com/search?updated-max=2015-04-23T16:51:00-07:00&max-results=7&start=70&by-date=false

Mighty bold words from someone who is "not an owner" because he "can't justify the expence" (his bad spelling, not mine).

[gsxrpilot]

1 minute ago, N1395W said:

Mighty bold words from someone who is "not an owner" because he "can't justify the expence" (his bad spelling, not mine).

BAAAZZZZZINGA!!

[mpg]

3 minutes ago, N1395W said:

Mighty bold words from someone who is "not an owner" because he "can't justify the expence" (his bad spelling, not mine).

Yeh, I changed my poor spelling to a more accurate phrase,,   hope I spelled it gooder....

But the fact that I dont own,, a plane,,  thats in annual,,  that I fly,,  is not the point I made in my post,,,   is it.....

[mpg]

Just now, gsxrpilot said:

BAAAZZZZZINGA!!

Yeh,,,  He really got me with that,,,   As you so aptly have pointed out,,,   Good for you.

I wish to post with and Talk to Alex about his plane,,,   not my lack of one...

[gsxrpilot]

Just now, mpg said:

Yeh,,,  He really got me with that,,,   As you so aptly have pointed out,,,   Good for you.

I wish to post with and Talk to Alex about his plane,,,   not my lack of one...

But no, Andy raises a valid point.  As a non-owner, you might not be as qualified to criticize ownership issues and situations.  Those of us who ARE owners have all likely been through issues with various shops/A&P's/etc, that we aren't proud of, but realize it's all part of the cost/hassle/joys of owning a personal aircraft.

[mpg]

6 minutes ago, gsxrpilot said:

But no, Andy raises a valid point.  As a non-owner, you might not be as qualified to criticize ownership issues and situations.  Those of us who ARE owners have all likely been through issues with various shops/A&P's/etc, that we aren't proud of, but realize it's all part of the cost/hassle/joys of owning a personal aircraft.

That is great that you say that,,,   because, as I have said, I Know Everything!!!  about Alexs new plane purchase...

But none of you really smart, experienced Owners have made any comments about Alexs trials with his mechanics...

I am old enough to be Alexs grandfather,,,   maybe he needs some Fatherly slap on the back of his head.

I dont need to own a plane to know and tell others, that in order to get things done,,,  

sometime you have to Ride their A$$ and be there, ready and willing to Kick them in the balls to keep working!

 

Please All of us,,,   Lets stop the derail,,,   Let us talk about the Great Mooney

this will turn out to be when she is done!!

[Raptor05121]

Wow you guys are blowing up my inbox.

 

Yeah it sucks to be on the back burner, I am almost to a year of ownership without a single hour logged. My location is very rural and my mechanic is the only one probably with the tools and experience to work on Mooneys. Next year I do have a challenge of letting him continue, lossibly with a lesser expense since he knows the plane, or travel far to find someone new and get dinged with another big bill.

 

Either way, I bought the plane knowing it needed work, but I didnt think it would take this long. In hindsight, I shouldve walked and just saved up. By now, I wouldve had enough cash for a nice down purchase to get a ~$40k

[DXB]

Sorry about the long delays - you will get there! 

In my experience thus far, managing work on one's plane is a tricky affair with a steep and unpleasant learning curve. The tasks an owner faces are figuring out what truly needs to be done, making sure it gets done right, keeping costs fair, and getting the plane back in a reasonable amount of time.   I've failed at all of these tasks at some point already over my 1.5 years of ownership.  Right now I prioritize figuring out what really needs to be done and getting it done right- this is where I really do my homework and try to be inquisitive and assertive without showing any disrespect. I've got to get better at managing costs, but I've found it hard to get folks to be straight up with me in this area (e.g. getting formal discrepancy lists at annual or hard quotes on well-defined jobs). Unfortunately, the market for quality Mooney-specific service isn't like automotive work- it's much harder to simply go elsewhere, and it can still pay to invest deeper in a relationship that isn't great from the outset.  With all these challenges, I don't push on the speed of work -  last priority. Once it's dismantled in the shop, you're pretty much at their mercy anyway. Just get elective stuff done when they're not super busy, or it'll take forever to get your plane back. Like you, I kinda wanted to get everything close to perfect from the outset when I got my plane - but it never will be.  Now I have all my major stuff addressed and keep a list of nonessential things - I try to knock out a few things on this list periodically, but the list is just a steady state, with new items always being added to replace resolved issues.

 

[steingar]

Unfortunately it is a truth of the universe that the squeaky gear gets the grease.  Things will go far quicker if you're there to push mechanics.  That said, some of us have these nasty things called jobs, that constrain us to some degree.  Still and all, the OP will wind up with an airworthy Mooney for a pittance.  If you're going to go the cheap route you get to sacrifice something.  I think the old saying is you can have a combination of cheap, good, or fast but not all three.

The OP should definitely keep his mechanic.  Guy's seen (and perhaps fixed?) everything in the airplane.  If he goes to a new mechanic he'll get a new set of eyes to find new shit going wrong.  Airworthiness is in the eyes of the beholder...

[bonal]

I was hoping the 4th time would be the charm but looks like I'm going to get the shit kicked out of me again, its never really a time issue just a lot of little things that add up to a lot of money.  I'm really starting to re think this retractable CS prop thing or maybe its just a really old bird or maybe something else.  We shall see how it turns out.  I stil think you should keep after your mech I cant see how an annual that gets stretched out that long can be good in terms of the work being done well.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, mpg said:

That is great that you say that,,,   because, as I have said, I Know Everything!!!  about Alexs new plane purchase...

But none of you really smart, experienced Owners have made any comments about Alexs trials with his mechanics...

I am old enough to be Alexs grandfather,,,   maybe he needs some Fatherly slap on the back of his head.

I dont need to own a plane to know and tell others, that in order to get things done,,,  

sometime you have to Ride their A$$ and be there, ready and willing to Kick them in the balls to keep working!

 

Please All of us,,,   Lets stop the derail,,,   Let us talk about the Great Mooney

this will turn out to be when she is done!!

If you walked into my shop with the same attitude you're displaying here, you'd likely leave with sore balls, and a bruised back side from the door hitting you.

We've yet to hear from the maintainer, perhaps there is more going on than we know.

Clarence

Edited June 16, 2016 by M20Doc

[Raptor05121]

Easy guys, we're all friendly here.

The discussion today convinced me to text my mechanic. I told him I'd like to fly to Texas early July, and asked for a timetable until completion. He said "we should be able to be done by then".

We will see. I'm not mad. I jumped in feet first. If the rush was to get into a plane as soon as possible, I would not be here. But my ideology is to get into a Mooney as cheaply as possible and so far, I'm not far off from $20k spent.

[Andy95W]

31 minutes ago, Raptor05121 said:

We will see. I'm not mad. I jumped in feet first. If the rush was to get into a plane as soon as possible, I would not be here. But my ideology is to get into a Mooney as cheaply as possible and so far, I'm not far off from $20k spent.

I think this is the point that is lost on the non-airplane owner mpg.

You can have it fast, but you'll pay a lot of money for it.  Or you can have it done inexpensively while helping work on it, and learning about it, yourself- but you have to allow yourself to be on your mechanic's schedule.  I think Alex made the right choice.

I work on very few OPAs (Other People's Airplanes)  because I don't really need the money or frustration- but I think I would work with Alex.

[rbridges]

Frustrating to read. I understand your predicament. Turn key plane may have been outside your price range but your location makes a project plane difficult. Hang in there and keep us posted. 

[N601RX]

Start showing up at his shop a couple of afternoons a week with your tools.  Ask him to show you where you can start or what you can do to get things ready while he is busy with something else. 

[RLCarter]

22 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

 

Yeah it sucks to be on the back burner, I am almost to a year of ownership without a single hour logged. My location is very rural and my mechanic is the only one probably with the tools and experience to work on Mooneys. Next year I do have a challenge of letting him continue, lossibly with a lesser expense since he knows the plane, or travel far to find someone new and get dinged with another big bill.

 

Either way, I bought the plane knowing it needed work, but I didnt think it would take this long. In hindsight, I shouldve walked and just saved up. By now, I wouldve had enough cash for a nice down purchase to get a ~$40k

I feel your pain, I purchased my "E" 18 months ago and could have spent a couple of weeks to get it back in Annual. Like you my list was getting longer each time I went to the hangar, granted most of the items could have been deferred but sometimes it just easier to address the issue while your there. A couple of good things come from what we are doing with our birds, (1) we know our birds inside and out (2) the next annual should be a cake walk (3) piece of mind knowing that the work was actually done and not pencil whipped. There is a ton of good info on MS but like ALL forums there are also people that have "A head full of ideas and shit for brains". Keep chipping away and it will get done, I've seen those "flying projects" and the majority of them never get completed. 

[Marcopolo]

Wanted to stay out of this "derailment", but feeling pretty strongly about the subject has caused me to chime in.

 

 I'm also new to the aircraft owner's club and due to the fact that Geneology.com refuses to place Warren Buffet on or near my family tree I find myself trying to pace myself through the whole ownership/maintenance process,   In a previous life I was a mechanic then service manager for a yacht company in south Florida, so I understand "expensive".  I also understand the need for some folks (myself included) to allow the chosen shop/mechanic to operate at a pace where some respect can be garnered in order to allow wiggle room in the billing and in the scheduling.  Where as I don't think for a second this mechanic is "screwing over" Mr. Raptor, I also believe Mr. Raptor is allowing just a bit of schedule creep due to his budgeting and family concerns.  The attitude proposed earlier that you must ride their A$$ and kick them in the balls to get stuff done just tells me that you need to find a better shop or that you have a reputation with that shop that they don't care for and they're wishing you would find another shop.  Setting expectations and arriving at an understanding in the beginning is on the shoulders of both parties.  Mr. Raptor has already had one bad experience with a mechanic and has excepted the pace and quality of workmanship with this mechanic, maybe in part due to the previous experience.

 

  Trust me, I'm not saying that all shops are great, in fact, in my opinion, "good" service is exceptionally hard to find, but they are out there, and in most cases they're the busiest, so time may not be on your side.

 

Rambling end!

[steingar]

14 hours ago, Raptor05121 said:

Easy guys, we're all friendly here.

The discussion today convinced me to text my mechanic. I told him I'd like to fly to Texas early July, and asked for a timetable until completion. He said "we should be able to be done by then".

We will see. I'm not mad. I jumped in feet first. If the rush was to get into a plane as soon as possible, I would not be here. But my ideology is to get into a Mooney as cheaply as possible and so far, I'm not far off from $20k spent.

Sounds like you have the right attitude.  You do need to get the airplane flying, sitting can produce its own issues.  A gentle prod is probably the best way to go.  There will come a time when you're flying your Money and you think back and laugh at your travails.

And yes, you got one hell of a deal on a Mooney.  I never saw anything that even approached what you scored.