Has thank you to ALPA

[Bennett]

ALPA has just written a letter to Congress that will probably derail the third class medical amendment to the Senate transportation bill being debated this week. Seems that they don't want to fly in the same sky as GA "medically unfit" pilots. Nice of them to wait for the very last minute to try and influence Congress.

Title should be simply : Thank you ALPA

[N33GG]

I have another title in mind for that post... 

[tony]

If my Georgia senators don't support the transportation amendment or the pilots bill of rights 2, I will be voting for their opponents in the primary and general elections.  I've told them that; maybe you should tell your senators too. 

[Guest]

Surely AOPA, EAA etc. have compiled a list of pilot deaths for the different categories of pilot medical. It would seem this type of info is required.

Clarence

[takair]

On the surface, it seems that there are as many or few medical incidences for class 3 medical as class 1. Either way, really disappointing what ALPA is doing. Are these the same folks claiming pilot shortages? I would think a strong GA builds a strong airline industry. Sure, those without medicals won't be flying commercial aircraft, but many of these folks will be inspiring a new generation to fly. This is really short sighted of ALPA.

[Danb]

I guess supply and demand would make there pay higher

[GeorgePerry]

There's been a lot of movement on Third Class Medical Reform and the Pilots Bill of Rights II - not all of it positive, but AOPA is fighting back!  The forums are buzzing with speculation and ALPA's ill conceived letter voicing baseless opposition isn't helping.  I've linked an update that AOPA put out this afternoon.  I hope this does a good job of letting pilots know the latest developments.  It's a fight but one AOPA is committed to win.  We are making progress.  57 Cosponsors in the Senate and 122 Cosponsors in the House along with nearly universal support from all major aviation associations including AOPA, the Experimental Aircraft Association, the Flying Dentists Association, the Flying Physicians Association, the General Aviation Manufacturers Association, the Helicopter Association International, the National Agricultural Aviation Association, the National Air Transportation Association, the National Business Aviation Association and most notably two other Airline Pilots Unions!

 

No one is happy that this is taking so long and other political agendas have slowed our efforts...The best thing we pilots can do is continue to call and write our Senators and Congressmen and ask them to sign on as Cosponsors.  Don't let the naysayers diminish the effort - With enough support, we CAN push this through.

 

http://www.aopa.org/...-medical-reform

 

Contact form for your Senator and Congressman

[ryoder]

I guess supply and demand would make there pay higher

Yes that is what they care about. Its like the teachers unions and cab drivers unions. They want no competition.

[Danb]

Yep...screw them...

[Parker_Woodruff]

Texas. Or any other "right to work" state where you can fly for an airline and join the union, paying the 2% union dues to ALPA.

Or you can not join the union, tick a bunch of people off, and still have to pay the 2% to the union as a maintenance fee.

The unions are the ones that want the monopoly. Competition makes everyone better. Having a system of forced dues with one option sure isn't the way.

[Rhumbline]

I was once a conscripted ALPA card carrier.  One of the greatest pleasures when quitting the airlines was parting ways with that crooked outfit.  Not surprisingly,  I continued to receive bills for dues since I had never allowed them access to my paycheck and always wrote them a check.  I ignored the bills for some time after leaving my last job and I started receiving threatening letters.  Fearing they might start collections proceedings but still irreverent of the so-called organization, I wrote "DECEASED" across the face of one of my statements and returned it.  They then required a mountain of supporting paperwork from my "widow" to let me off the hook and RIP.  I never responded and the bills and requests eventually subsided.  I detest those contemptible money grubbing @$$holes!     

[MyNameIsNobody]

Yes that is what they care about. Its like the teachers unions and cab drivers unions. They want no competition.

It is beyond that...like the neighborhood Association and Government at all levels it is about control and a "I know what is best for all" attitude...there was back scratching on this, no doubt. Contempt and venom spit in their general direction...

[Hank]

Typical labor union. You should see the "activities" on strikes in WV. Cops won't stop union workers fighting, vandalizing company property, threatening workers, etc. No uncivilized, impolite or corrupt activity by an organized union surprises me anymore.

[aviatoreb]

It is beyond that...like the neighborhood Association and Government at all levels it is about control and a "I know what is best for all" attitude...there was back scratching on this, no doubt. Contempt and venom spit in their general direction...

 

You could be right - I don't put it past the organizations - FAA or ALPA - to arrange a favors deal.  You scratch my back I scratch your back.  FAA offers ALPA to come out on this deal to try and stop 3rd class medical that ALPA doesn't actually care either way in return for some other favor entirely.

 

I like the Monty Python - Holy Grail reference.

[Andy95W]

Typical labor union. You should see the "activities" on strikes in WV. Cops won't stop union workers fighting, vandalizing company property, threatening workers, etc. No uncivilized, impolite or corrupt activity by an organized union surprises me anymore.

In the late 1990's I was a production supervisor in a plastics factory that was represented by the Teamsters. I've seen first hand the kind of things you're talking about from a management perspective.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you in comparing ALPA to the type of union we've both seen first hand in a factory environment. Frankly, it's like comparing the Screen Actors Guild to the Teamsters.

Yes, ALPA is also a lobby and I wouldn't doubt that there have been back-room deals with the FAA, but I doubt those were more corrupt than the deals that Airlines for America (the Airlines lobby- formerly ATA) has made.

Cut and pasted from the Airline Pilot's Code of Ethics:

-----------------------------------------------------

An Air Line Pilot will faithfully discharge the duty he owes the airline that employs him and whose salary makes possible his way of life.

-He will do all within his powers to operate his aircraft efficiently and on schedule in a manner that will not cause damage or unnecessary maintenance.

-He will respect the officers, directors, and supervisors of his airline, remembering that respect does not entail subservience.

-He will faithfully obey all lawful directives given by his supervisors, but will insist and, if necessary, refuse to obey any directives that, in his considered judgment, are not lawful or will adversely affect flight safety. He will remember that in the final analysis the responsibility for safe completion of the flight rests upon his shoulders.

-He will not knowingly falsify any log or record, nor will he condone such action by other crew members.

-He will remember that a full month’s salary demands a full and fair month’s work. On his days off, he will not engage in any occupation or activity that will diminish his efficiency or bring discredit to his profession.

-He will realize that he represents the airline to all who meet him and will at all times keep his personal appearance and conduct above reproach.

-He will give his airline, its officers, directors, and supervisors the full loyalty that is their due, and will refrain from speaking ill of them. If he feels it necessary to reveal and correct conditions that are not conducive to safe operations and harmonious relations, he will direct his criticism to the proper authorities within ALPA.

-He will hold his airline’s business secrets in confidence, and will take care that they are not improperly revealed.

-----------------------------------------------------

This is hardly uncivilized or impolite, and absolutely does not advocate vandalizing company property. I wouldn't be a member of a union that did.

http://www.alpa.org/en/about-alpa/what-we-do/code-of-ethics

And I promise I won't post anything more about ALPA, or about 3rd Class Medical Reform, which I'm now in favor of.

[orionflt]

I was just on the ALPA web site and the one consistent thing I saw was they were only interested in the issues that directly affect the airlines, Not aviation in general. I guess they feel anyone who will be flying for the airlines will be progressing thru their ratings and will be required to have a medical.

 

Brian

[aviatoreb]

Cut and pasted from the Airline Pilot's Code of Ethics:

-----------------------------------------------------

An Air Line Pilot will faithfully discharge the duty he owes the airline that employs him and whose salary makes possible his way of life.

-He will do all within his powers to operate his aircraft efficiently and on schedule in a manner that will not cause damage or unnecessary maintenance.

-He will respect the officers, directors, and supervisors of his airline, remembering that respect does not entail subservience.

-He will faithfully obey all lawful directives given by his supervisors, but will insist and, if necessary, refuse to obey any directives that, in his considered judgment, are not lawful or will adversely affect flight safety. He will remember that in the final analysis the responsibility for safe completion of the flight rests upon his shoulders.

-He will not knowingly falsify any log or record, nor will he condone such action by other crew members.

-He will remember that a full month’s salary demands a full and fair month’s work. On his days off, he will not engage in any occupation or activity that will diminish his efficiency or bring discredit to his profession.

-He will realize that he represents the airline to all who meet him and will at all times keep his personal appearance and conduct above reproach.

-He will give his airline, its officers, directors, and supervisors the full loyalty that is their due, and will refrain from speaking ill of them. If he feels it necessary to reveal and correct conditions that are not conducive to safe operations and harmonious relations, he will direct his criticism to the proper authorities within ALPA.

-He will hold his airline’s business secrets in confidence, and will take care that they are not improperly revealed.

-----------------------------------------------------

This is hardly uncivilized or impolite, and absolutely does not advocate vandalizing company property. I wouldn't be a member of a union that did.

http://www.alpa.org/en/about-alpa/what-we-do/code-of-ethics

And I promise I won't post anything more about ALPA, or about 3rd Class Medical Reform, which I'm now in favor of.

 

That mission statement is more telling to me than I think it is intended to be.  I take a lot of other meaning from it - It has a selfish self serving retro personality built right in -

 

Is this 1952?  Where is Ward Cleaver?  And Dick Van Dyke when you need them?  So is it that they only allow MALE pilots into ALPA or is it that they are only concerned with their male membership.

 

And still - it is zero skin off the ALPA memberships back if there is a 3rd class medical reform - I take it as pure egotism to stick their nose where it doesn't belong.  And at the worst, it is also short sighted because for the reasons I said, shrinking GA hurts the airlines too as ALPA itself recognizes forthcoming pilot shortage.

[N33GG]

Those of you who have read my posts the last two years know, although I say controversial things, I rarely cuss,

As an ALPA member 10 years plus through NUMEROUS airlines ...

I THINK IT IS CHICKENSHIT THEY TRIED TO DERAIL THIS.

I AM WRITING ALL MY SENATORS AND CONGRESSMEN.

... when it is convenient, I'll write the pompous narcissists at ALPA to let then know, yeah me, the one who PAYS THEIR SALARIES ... just happens to disagree with their superior political intelligence and position.

Harrumpf!

[Releew]

I fly commercial very often......  Cant wait to stick my head in the front door while boarding as ask WTF.......  Where do you think you started?  

 

This is a politically driven buy out at it finest!  Really pitiful this country has come to this.

 

Rick

[MyNameIsNobody]

True dat

[MyNameIsNobody]

Nice Kelly's Heroes speak Oddball

Oops, forgot smiley face signifying like...

[aviatoreb]

Most of the line flying dues paying pilots up front probably had no idea APLA was going to interject themselves into this? Most probably have no opinion. It's just a few fat boy pilots who got cushy desk jobs up in ALPA HQ, don't really fly anymore ... and now think they know what's best for everyone. If you said something to the average line pilots upfront, they probably would have no clue what you are talking about, or what their union is doing?

 

Still - if they are members, it is their duty to know.  If they do not know, then it is fair for you to inform them, and either stand by the organization for which they are members, or make noises from the inside that their organization membership is unhappy.  It is entirely fair game to query the airline pilot.

 

You know what would be fun - hang out at O'Haire for a day and hassle everybody in an pilots uniform that walks by.

[aviatoreb]

Since it is fair to inform people whose duty is to know: While you're at it, would you mind telling everyone who voted for Obama what he is really doing to America? Entirely fair game ... right?

 

Uh oh - we had better stick with topics we are agreeing on or this thread will careen out of control.  I voted for Obama and I would do it again if he were running against any of the candidates from last time, or being presented this time - on either side.  Now...this is a pivotal moment - an opportunity for this thread to be lost to the world of Timmy-ness, and I hope we stick with the topic at hand that we seem to be back-slapping agreeing to - which is what idiots the ALPA leadership is - rather than throwing darts at each other for general politics.

[aviatoreb]

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/11825151_10207584502836947_4077339067619280636_n.jpg?oh=d8048c7c192292231ad2a967ad112fac&oe=5657D957

 

Ok- I'll take the bullet - now let's go back to hating ALPA together before we start hating each other.

[capthaak]

You have to know that many if not all ALPA members who grew up in GA don't share the presidents view. There's currently a campaign to ask him to stop fighting AOPA, but will probably fall on deaf ears. I'm not certain, but pretty sure the ALPA president is former military, and many of them look down their noses at GA.

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