Got a flyer for Lycoming for a new engine

[ryoder]

I guess they think I have a Bravo.

They sent me a slick flyer with three prices for TIO-540 options which all require a core.

Overhaul is $56,609 rebuilt is $62,109 and new is only $91,970.

Has the world gone mad?

[RobertE]

Yes.

[rbridges]

I had no idea a new 540 could cost that much.

[Hank]

Ho-leeee $&@!!

[BKlott]

You have to remember that aviation is irrationally expensive. So when you take something like the cost of a new engine or an engine overhaul and make it even more expensive than it already is, well, that is the aviation norm...exactly what is expected. Thus, everything is well in the world of aviation.

[jbs007]

For that price you should get your A&P license, make friends with an IA, and overhaul it yourself. 

[chrisk]

I considered buying a bravo some time back.  As much as I would love the plane, the engine cost was well beyond what I was willing to deal with. --And yes the cost is what I consider stupid when put in relative terms.  The overhaul cost is more than a very nice M20E or F with a low time engine.

[Ftlausa]

My J with the IO360 is looking better and better. 

[mike_elliott]

I guess they think I have a Bravo.

They sent me a slick flyer with three prices for TIO-540 options which all require a core.

Overhaul is $56,609 rebuilt is $62,109 and new is only $91,970.

Has the world gone mad?

 

too bad they didn't list the price new without core. That would really get your attention. I recently saw where the lowly IO360 is 77,000 without a core new. Keep in mind, you can send them a core, and they can reject it because of a crack, age since it has last been in their shop, etc, and then you get to pay the without core new bonus price.

[cliffy]

New airplanes are priced in todays dollars and using today's costs.

New parts (no matter what vintage airplane) are priced at the same "today's dollars" costs to produce.

Can't make parts today and sell them for yesterday's pricing.

Didn't know my C was actually worth 1/2 a million?

I'll sell to the first one with $250,000, 1/2 price sale :-)

But today only!

[jetdriven]

too bad they didn't list the price new without core. That would really get your attention. I recently saw where the lowly IO360 is 77,000 without a core new. Keep in mind, you can send them a core, and they can reject it because of a crack, age since it has last been in their shop, etc, and then you get to pay the without core new bonus price.

They only reject cores if they are over 35 years old, or not "complete and operable".  Cracks etc are OK, a window in the case with a rod hanging out are not.   Our core charge for the IO-360-A3B6D was 14,500. You actually write them a check for that and if they are nice, you get the check back.

[Conrad]

Where'd you come up with half a million? According the Bureau of Labor Statistics my plane's sale price would have been around $176k in today's economy.

[rbridges]

They only reject cores if they are over 35 years old, or not "complete and operable". Cracks etc are OK, a window in the case with a rod hanging out are not. Our core charge for the IO-360-A3B6D was 14,500. You actually write them a check for that and if they are nice, you get the check back.

Getting nervous about mine. I believe mine is the original motor ie 50 years old.

[Hank]

Conrad, you're trying to move the original price of your C forward using historical inflation rates. Do the same for Cessna 172, and it will be about a third of what they are currently selling for.

 

Cliffy probably started at the $699,999 price for a new Acclaim and "devalued" it somewhat to account for shorter fuselage and lower-powered engine.

 

I'll be the second C model accepting half-price bids of $250,000 or higher! ADS-B ready, with approved navigations source already installed. This offer valid through Monday, July 6, 2015.

 

Lycoming is probably embarrassed to publicly advertise their "no core" engine prices for most of their engines, to say nothing of the TIO-540. That's just another [of many] reasons that I don't have a Bravo. Or is it "many thousands of reasons"??

[Bravoman]

A brand new 300 horse Yamaha outboard engine is probably in the 30-35k range. The IO-540 shouldn't cost any more than that. Probably a little more product liability exposure built in to the price of the aircraft power plant

[mike_elliott]

Conrad, you're trying to move the original price of your C forward using historical inflation rates. Do the same for Cessna 172, and it will be about a third of what they are currently selling for.

 

Cliffy probably started at the $699,999 price for a new Acclaim and "devalued" it somewhat to account for shorter fuselage and lower-powered engine.

 

I'll be the second C model accepting half-price bids of $250,000 or higher! ADS-B ready, with approved navigations source already installed. This offer valid through Monday, July 6, 2015.

 

Lycoming is probably embarrassed to publicly advertise their "no core" engine prices for most of their engines, to say nothing of the TIO-540. That's just another [of many] reasons that I don't have a Bravo. Or is it "many thousands of reasons"??

 

List price on the TIO540AF1B is a mere $138892 see

http://www.airpowerinc.com/productcart/pc/TLEngineDetail.asp?catID=33&prodID=10267

[mike_elliott]

Getting nervous about mine. I believe mine is the original motor ie 50 years old.

 

yep, no core credit for you on a new or reman. Robert, just have a great shop rebuild it to new specs, and avoid possibly getting the bonus factory surprise in a couple hundred hours

[ryoder]

You can buy a brand new Rotax engine for the following prices:

912ul 80 hp $18k

912is full FADEC 100hp $21k

914 turbo 115hp $28k

 

I know these are not the same output but I can see myself flying a Rotax powered airplane some day. 

The Sling 4 four place with the 914 turbo would be cool to fly in the flight levels at somewhat low airspeeds but sipping gas.

The Tecnam twin would also be an interesting choice. 

[xcrmckenna]

New airplanes are priced in todays dollars and using today's costs.

New parts (no matter what vintage airplane) are priced at the same "today's dollars" costs to produce.

Can't make parts today and sell them for yesterday's pricing.

Didn't know my C was actually worth 1/2 a million?

I'll sell to the first one with $250,000, 1/2 price sale :-)

But today only!

Can I post date the check for tomorrow???

[Hank]

Can I post date the check for tomorrow???

Post date it for Thursday, well arrange the pick up next week. I'm off on Friday.

[M20F]

A brand new 300 horse Yamaha outboard engine is probably in the 30-35k range. The IO-540 shouldn't cost any more than that. Probably a little more product liability exposure built in to the price of the aircraft power plant

That engine though is a new design and so Yamaha has to factor in the cost of the tooling, R&D, marketing, etc. A Lycoming IO-360 doesn't have those issues, to me why they cost over $20K is beyond me as Lycoming should be easily able to mass produce these.

[cliffy]

Well times up. Price now goes back to the discounted Acclaim price at 1/2 mil !

My vote was for a well documented field overhaul by ME! 8 years and 850 hrs and still going strong.

But then again, I have all the tools to mic and measure everything in my shop. I know what was wrong and

I know that everything met new stndards when I put it together. Just like a factory reman.

[FlyWalt]

Aviation vendors are like drug dealers.

 

    - They know we are addicted to their product

    - And they know enough of us will not negotiate or walk away

 

Hence the outlandish prices that seem to be maintained and raised every year.

[ArtVandelay]

A brand new 300 horse Yamaha outboard engine is probably in the 30-35k range. The IO-540 shouldn't cost any more than that. Probably a little more product liability exposure built in to the price of the aircraft power plant

A little more? Do some searches, they lost a 89 million lawsuit when the NTSB report indicated there was no engine problem, with a 40 year old engine.

[mike_elliott]

A little more? Do some searches, they lost a 89 million lawsuit when the NTSB report indicated there was no engine problem, with a 40 year old engine.

key operative here is lawsuit. I wouldn't be surprised if their selling price formula is on the order of (COG+Profit+OH) x3 (for liability) = selling price. From what I have heard, It is one of the reasons lyc doesn't want to take a core that is past xx years, they have been exonerated from liability on those engines so getting them off the "roster" isn't a concern  I don't know how true it is, but what other possibilities could there be for time limiting cores?