N33GG Posted February 22, 2015 Report Posted February 22, 2015 Most of the time, I fly with a thumb and one finger. Really let's you know when you are out of trim. And no, I do not fly the plane with the trim wheel. The thumb and finger technique is especially useful when IFR. It is when you get stressed that you tend to grasp the yoke too hard and lose track of trim. Being out of trim in IMC is dangerous when you need to do something and the plane gets away from you, instead of continuing on the desired path. FWIW YMMV etc. Quote
DXB Posted February 22, 2015 Report Posted February 22, 2015 On 2/22/2015 at 9:26 PM, Hank said: Dev-- Are you trimming for climb when you take off? It's a long climb to 7500 msl without nose up trim. That's my happy spot for medium XC flying, an hour or so in length. Longer trips are higher. Maybe because I like to clear the hills in WV. Trim to maintain desired airspeed in the climb. Level off at desired cruising altitude, trim to hold it, let the plane accelerate, set power and re trim to hold altitude. The trim wheel is your friend, learn to use it often. Time to descend, I push for 500 fpm and trim the force away. Adjust throttle and mixture to hold cruise settings for Manifold Pressure and EGT. Level off, trim to hold, reset / reduce power, re trim. Enter pattern, drop Takeoff flaps, re trim on downwind. Drop gear, adjust trim for descent. Adjust throttle and flaps as required to maintain the descent rate and sight picture you want, and adjust trim to hold it. Adjust Pitch for speed, power for altitude. Re trim after each adjustment. After a while, it will get easier. Enjoy flying your Mooney! The freedom is wonderful, and you will quickly get spoiled by the fast, almost effortless transportation. I find most of the work is in the preflight planning and weather watching. The actual flying is easy, although my arms do get tired sometimes with all of that flapping! All great stuff to work on Hank- minimal experience so far, but I'm already pretty passionate about the plane. I haven't been very high in it yet or done a x-country. The takeoff trim setting seems pretty close for the climb to 3-4k but will pay more attention next time. Hopefully this week if this #@^%# weather lets up. Quote
Danb Posted February 22, 2015 Report Posted February 22, 2015 Hank you said you flew 2 Mooneys. But the way you explained it should work for all Mooneys Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted February 22, 2015 Report Posted February 22, 2015 I taught a student whose instructor never taught him how to use the trim in a C172. He spent his whole solo cross country flight adding and reducing power to maintain 5,500 feet cruising altitude. Ridiculous. 2 Quote
DrBill Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 Trim is a necessary skill that should be a part of PPL to enhance the ability to fly any airplane if needed. Imagine shortly after his checkride a buddy gives him a ride in a Bo and the old boy goes into cardiac arrest !. The last words from his mouth in the air are "your airplane". Trim is what I associate to my ability to move easily from one airplane to another. My instructors and examiners have all mentioned my command of the trim device (wheel, lever, crank or whatever). I owe that skill to my first instructor, good ole Ed StPierre may God rest his soul. BILL Quote
Browncbr1 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 I don't see how it's possible to fly safely without managing trim. I'm not very experienced (less than 20hours in my mooney), but even I know that! I've been amazed at some of the things I've heard. For me, I've figured out to be 500 above TPA at about a mile or two out, trim for level flight, reduce power to decend and enter the pattern. Then set power to what ive figured out to work well and trim for hands off on down wind. If it's not properly trimmed, then my base and final are all out of whack and I have to correct with multiple power changes and excessive yoke pressure. It makes for an inconsistent unsafe situation in my opinion. I'm really surprised that a CFI could say trim is not needed!! Quote
Browncbr1 Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 On 2/22/2015 at 11:20 PM, Parker_Woodruff said: I taught a student whose instructor never taught him how to use the trim in a C172. He spent his whole solo cross country flight adding and reducing power to maintain 5,500 feet cruising altitude. Ridiculous. Reminds me of my uncle who drives his car either pedal to the floor or foot off the pedal. Makes for a very uncomfortable ride. I always wonder when his engine or transmission will give out. Quote
ryoder Posted February 23, 2015 Author Report Posted February 23, 2015 We should take what this student pilot said to me with a grain of salt. I haven't flown with his cfi yet but he is an old hand and is also the owner and an IA. I just thought it was odd that he didn't think trim was important. It really surprised me because my emergency operations training equated to "trim for best glide" not pitch. In the 172 that was full nose up trim power at idle. Being out of trim is almost an emergency waiting to happen in my book. Quote
carusoam Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 One thing that can't be said enough to a new Mooney pilot... Be aware (not beware) of the trim. 1) Trim is added each time the flaps are lowered, or the nose heads downhill.... 2) During a full power go-around with the flaps deployed, the nose will point up significantly, on its own. It takes a fair amount of arm force to maintain attitude while trimming. Now all the new guys are aware. Hank presented it well. Takes the surprise out of it at least...! I've only flown two Mooneys as well(C&R). They both react the same. One does it with more power... Best regards, -a- Quote
bonal Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 On 2/22/2015 at 3:11 PM, N201MKTurbo said: You can fly a C150 all day long without touching the trim. I remember wondering "what is the point of this thing? It hardly does anything" Maybe all private students should be taught touch and go's in a Mooney where you live or die by the trim wheel. Maybe the trim wheel was busted. Quote
ryoder Posted February 23, 2015 Author Report Posted February 23, 2015 I couldn't believe how much the Mooney pitches down with the addition of flaps. I read in the POH to add nose up trim but it was surprising coming from a 172 in which you need nose down trim after the first notch. My hand reaches for the trim about one thousand times during flight it seems and its natural. I have 72 hours in the Mooney so I have exactly half my total time in the Mooney. I do feel more comfortable with the stall and spin characteristics of the 172 though because I stalled it so many times. I now stall the Mooney on the runway not in the practice area. 1 Quote
Parker_Woodruff Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 On 2/23/2015 at 11:15 AM, ryoder said: I do feel more comfortable with the stall and spin characteristics of the 172 though because I stalled it so many times. I now stall the Mooney on the runway not in the practice area. I'd encourage you to get comfortable with the Mooney in slow flight, then transition to some power-off stalls...with a CFI if you aren't comfortable doing them alone. They're really not too drastic and by doing them you will be so much more comfortable with your new airplane. Confidence in how the airplane performs and reacts is critical to you comfortably flying the plane by the numbers. Of course, never spin a Mooney! 1 Quote
Mooneymite Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 Anyone who's flown a Mooneymite knows that the flaps are lowered by the trim crank! Ingenious way of keeping the plane in trim at all flap settings. 1 Quote
201er Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 On 2/23/2015 at 1:50 PM, Mooneymite said: Anyone who's flown a Mooneymite knows that the flaps are lowered by the trim crank! Ingenious way of keeping the plane in trim at all flap settings. I thought it's the same on the M20? Right hand presses the electric flaps down toggle while the right hand presses the electric trim up toggle simultaneously. Hold for equal amount of time and the plane comes out perfectly trimmed for the new angle and speed with however much flaps you added. The mooneymite just does this with one control rather than two! 1 Quote
Mooneymite Posted February 23, 2015 Report Posted February 23, 2015 On 2/23/2015 at 8:05 PM, 201er said: The mooneymite just does this with one control rather than two! And an "armstrong" crank. Quote
ryoder Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Posted February 24, 2015 Yeah I am going up with my cfi again soon. I have done slow flight but haven't stalled it power on or off in the practice area alone. I have done this about fifty times in a 172 but the Mooney is not as stable or spin resistant so I haven't done that. Funny story is that Richard Collins never stalled his 201. He said that stall practice is unrealistic and doesn't help people deal with base to final type accident avoidance. On 2/23/2015 at 12:12 PM, Parker_Woodruff said: I'd encourage you to get comfortable with the Mooney in slow flight, then transition to some power-off stalls...with a CFI if you aren't comfortable doing them alone. They're really not too drastic and by doing them you will be so much more comfortable with your new airplane. Confidence in how the airplane performs and reacts is critical to you comfortably flying the plane by the numbers. Of course, never spin a Mooney! Quote
ryoder Posted February 24, 2015 Author Report Posted February 24, 2015 My hand moves very fast from the flap pump to the trim roller on the bottom of my seat but the human body can only move so fast! On 2/23/2015 at 8:05 PM, 201er said: I thought it's the same on the M20? Right hand presses the electric flaps down toggle while the right hand presses the electric trim up toggle simultaneously. Hold for equal amount of time and the plane comes out perfectly trimmed for the new angle and speed with however much flaps you added. The mooneymite just does this with one control rather than two! Quote
Hank Posted February 24, 2015 Report Posted February 24, 2015 On 2/23/2015 at 8:05 PM, 201er said: I thought it's the same on the M20? Right hand presses the electric flaps down toggle while the right hand presses the electric trim up toggle simultaneously. Hold for equal amount of time and the plane comes out perfectly trimmed for the new angle and speed with however much flaps you added. The mooneymite just does this with one control rather than two! Right hand presses the flap button to Down while left arm corrects with yoke. Then right hand spins trim wheel while left arm relaxes. Quote
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