Synthetic vision

[Oscar Avalle]

We departed Juneau, AK on a solid IMC day in our Gulfstream G550 with synthetic vision. On that day, it was helpful. Sure, the aircraft can automatically follow the flight plan between the mountains. And we can always manually follow the magenta line on the moving map. However, forming a mental image of the mountains ahead, using the lines on a moving map, is not the same as actually seeing them on the big display. Necessary, no. Really nice to have, you bet. We made sure to climb at 5000+ FPM to be clear of the mountains rapidly. However, "if" we had an engine loss, a flight through the valley would have been required. The Syn-Vis would have been a very powerful tool in that situation. 

 

My point: I'm a fan. It may not be necessary, right up until it is. 

 

Where I fly out from ATC radar coverage is rather low (to say the least) and there are several high mountains around here that may become a risk for your health, in particular in low vis. In this environment I love the ASPEN Synthetic vision. It really makes me feel much more confortable and safer. Obviously, the importance of such an instrument is much lower in many parts of the US where there is good radar coverage and flat terrain.

[Jim Peace]

Anyone using Fore Flights newly released synthetic vision?

 

The accompanying video looked great. Would like to hear comments of any new users experiences.

 

Best,

 

DH

Screen shots of me driving around Anchorage today with stratus2 and Foreflight. Notice my altitude. Started out at sea level, went to top of "flat top" and took pictures on way down. Notice how much pitch down. Steep hills and low gear.

 

It works in a Mazda Tribute....will have to test it out in a Mooney next.........

 

Jim

[Ragsf15e]

Flew from St George, UT to Minden, NV vfr yesterday. Gererally 4,000' ceilings in the valleys, bases around 9 to 10k msl with all the high mountains obscured and ice in the clouds. Having syn vis was really nice as i crossed some of the lower passes at 1,000' agl to maintan vfr!

[Ragsf15e]

Bit of a headwind as you can see!

[M016576]

Flew from St George, UT to Minden, NV vfr yesterday. Gererally 4,000' ceilings in the valleys, bases around 9 to 10k msl with all the high mountains obscured and ice in the clouds. Having syn vis was really nice as i crossed some of the lower passes at 1,000' agl to maintan vfr!

That screenshot takes me back to my days in Fallon!

[Marauder]

Flew from St George, UT to Minden, NV vfr yesterday. Gererally 4,000' ceilings in the valleys, bases around 9 to 10k msl with all the high mountains obscured and ice in the clouds. Having syn vis was really nice as i crossed some of the lower passes at 1,000' agl to maintan vfr!

If ForeFlight keeps adding and enhancing features, I may need to look at them again.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Ragsf15e]

Yeah, before that screenshot i flew right through all the Nellis Moas too... Right through the middle! It was awesome... Flight following from nellis control and the moas were cold. Ive done a lot of flying in there, but thats probably the first time i had enough time to really look around... 500kts is a bit different than 140!

Marauder, im going to get an ipad mini and mount it on the right side of the panel just to display the adi/syn vis and approach plates for ifr flying. Ill still use the regular ipad for maps, planning, etc, but the mini will be almost like a cb club eadi. Its really good!

[midlifeflyer]

If ForeFlight keeps adding and enhancing features, I may need to look at them again.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I'm a ForeFlight user but really, whatever EFB you are already using is likely to have those features also. If not right now, wait a bit. Some have even had synthetic vision before ForeFlight.

[Rik]

Question..

 

I have an Ipad Air BUT mine is only a "WiFi" version.

 

Will it work with the Stratus?

 

I've been told only the Ipad with the built in dial up modem has a GPS and that the WiFi versions do not and I purchased the Foreflight, just haven't got a stratus yet so I don't know if my Ipad will work with this?

 

Any thoughts?

[Ragsf15e]

You should check out the Foreflight website where they have a lot of info on required hardware.  I'm actually pretty sure it will work perfectly with a Stratus - the Stratus has a super accurate GPS in it which feeds Foreflight through the wifi.  Obviously yours won't work without the Stratus since it doesn't have GPS, but with the Stratus it should be fine.

 

The Foreflight customer service has been pretty responsive to me in the past too...

[Rik]

Thanks!

 

I had absolutely no idea about this GPS issue when I purchased the IPad thus never gave it a second thought.

 

Would be a real bummer if it didn't work as I purchased the full SV version of FF.

[gsxrpilot]

Question..

 

I have an Ipad Air BUT mine is only a "WiFi" version.

 

Will it work with the Stratus?

 

I've been told only the Ipad with the built in dial up modem has a GPS and that the WiFi versions do not and I purchased the Foreflight, just haven't got a stratus yet so I don't know if my Ipad will work with this?

 

Any thoughts?

It will work just fine. The Stratus provides the GPS functionality.

[rbridges]

Question..

I have an Ipad Air BUT mine is only a "WiFi" version.

Will it work with the Stratus?

I've been told only the Ipad with the built in dial up modem has a GPS and that the WiFi versions do not and I purchased the Foreflight, just haven't got a stratus yet so I don't know if my Ipad will work with this?

Any thoughts?

All iPads work with stratus. Wifi only iPads don't have built in gps and require an external source such as a stratus or bad elf for position. Fwiw my iPadini is wifi only and I use it with a stratus 2.

[midlifeflyer]

Question..

 

I have an Ipad Air BUT mine is only a "WiFi" version.

 

Will it work with the Stratus?

 

I've been told only the Ipad with the built in dial up modem has a GPS and that the WiFi versions do not and I purchased the Foreflight, just haven't got a stratus yet so I don't know if my Ipad will work with this?

 

Any thoughts?

My iPad is only a "WiFi" version. It works fine with Stratus.

 

You correctly heard that only the iPad with the 3G/4G data capability (it's not a modem) has an internal GPS.  All that means is, you need to use an external GPS in order for ForeFlight (or google maps or any app that uses your location) to know where you are when you are not using an internet connection.

 

A "WiFi-only" iPad and apps that use your location, including ForeFlight, works fine with a number of external GPS units. Stratus has it's own GPS unit in addition to its other features and will work just great with your iPad.

 

BTW, synthetic vision works fine without Stratus, so long as you have GPS capability (internal or external). What all Stratus generations add is ADS-B weather. What Stratus II (not Stratus I adds) is an AHRS to give you pitch and bank information on the synthetic vision screen.

[carusoam]

There is a lot of good and bad with that....

Good news...you saved some money on the IPad...

Bad news... you have to buy an external GPS source...

Good news... GPS sources come in different flavors. WAAS and non-WAAS...

Fortunately, most of us would not notice the accuracy difference at 175kias...

Unfortunately, it is impossible to have your iPad app measure T/O and landing distances accurately enough without WAAS...

Good news... You have found there are portable sources of weather, traffic, flight recorder, ADSB-out, and artificial horizons...

Bad news... They can cost more than you intended to pay for an iPad...

Good news... You bought a Mooney, you are capable of discretion, you know these portable devices are nice to have, but there are fully certified, panel mounted boxes marked with G and BK (and others) logos.

Bad news... Whatever you buy today will be outdated by the time it gets delivered...

Good news... In two years you will want to update your iPad...

I have an aging SkyRadar nearly four years old...

Can you sense a slippery slope? And for a few bucks more...a glass panel in your Acclaim..!

Best regards,

-a-

[Rik]

Thanks!!

 

So can those of  you who purchased a Ipad with 3G/4G read data in FF without a Stratus?

 

I can see how that would make purchasing a Stratus an option, but how high can you fly without a stratus (or such a device) and still receive data?

[Piloto]

I am using the Garmin Pilot for WX from the internet and it works very well up to about 5000ft above the updates are slower but useful. Cellular providers are working on a new format that will allow airline passengers direct access to their networks. After all is a bigger market than GA. No need for an ADS-B or XM receiver to get weather.

José

[midlifeflyer]

Thanks!!

 

So can those of  you who purchased a Ipad with 3G/4G read data in FF without a Stratus?

 

I can see how that would make purchasing a Stratus an option, but how high can you fly without a stratus (or such a device) and still receive data?

 

I'm not certain what you mean by "read data." What data.

 

In order to have the maps and charts and airport information (runways, AFDs) in flight, you don't need an in-air data connection at all. You download all the charts and maps while connected to the internet on the ground and carry them with you.

 

In order to see your position in the air, you need at least a GPS source, whether internal or external.

 

In order to get weather in the air you need a weather source, most typically Stratus if you are using ForeFlight.

 

In terms of "how high" can you receive weather and other data with only a cellular connection, it depends a lot on where you are. It's not something I would rely on.

 

I'm not sure if that answers your question.

[Rik]

Yes, the flight DATA,heading, altitude, speed, location is what I am referring to as I have ZERO data appearing on mine and I was wondering if the built in GPS works only at altitudes below X or not.

 

I fully understand the charts and maps must be obtained over the internet no the GPS. 

 

So basically Stratus (or something similar) is necessary regardless of which IPad one has purchased.

[Ragsf15e]

Rik - 

 

If you have an IPAD with GPS on it, Foreflight should show your heading, altitude, speed, location, etc at all altitudes.  It works in the car and will work on an airliner (I watched the Foreflight on a recent Southwest Airlines flight as we flew the Maire Arrival at KPHX).  

 

If you're not seeing that data, make sure you have an IPAD with the GPS and the GPS is turned on.

 

The Stratus will give you another GPS source and ADS-B data.  Stratus 2 will also provide a backup ADI with it's internal AHRS.

 

Bottom line - it should work fine with just the GPS internal to your IPAD so make sure you have one.

 

Drew

[midlifeflyer]

Yes, the flight DATA,heading, altitude, speed, location is what I am referring to as I have ZERO data appearing on mine and I was wondering if the built in GPS works only at altitudes below X or not.

 

I fully understand the charts and maps must be obtained over the internet no the GPS. 

 

So basically Stratus (or something similar) is necessary regardless of which IPad one has purchased.

 

Didn't you say earlier you only had a Wifi-only iPad? 

 

In order to know its location (which is necessary in order to know time, speed, altitude, and distance and other things that are based on its location) your iPad need to have a GPS connection.

 

A WiFi-only iPad does not have an internal GPS. If you have not connected an external GPS to it, it has no way of knowing altitude, speed or location.

 

A 3G./4G iPad does have an internal GPS and it does know altitude, speed and location (so long as it is in a position to receive a good GPS signal) without an external GPS.

[Rik]

Didn't you say earlier you only had a Wifi-only iPad? 

 

In order to know its location (which is necessary in order to know time, speed, altitude, and distance and other things that are based on its location) your iPad need to have a GPS connection.

 

A WiFi-only iPad does not have an internal GPS. If you have not connected an external GPS to it, it has no way of knowing altitude, speed or location.

 

A 3G./4G iPad does have an internal GPS and it does know altitude, speed and location (so long as it is in a position to receive a good GPS signal) without an external GPS.

 

Yes that's exactly what I have.

 

However, I was wondering if I had to purchase another Ipad in the future and that said future purchase had a 3G/4G or even 5G, capabilities where and how much would it benefit me. Thus the question I posed.

 

If I had gotten a response that "it works to about 1,500' and then it fades out" then there really wouldn't be a good reason to even consider anything other than a wiFi version. The answers have been though that FF with a built in GPS model (3G/4G) works at altitude as well then it makes a future consideration for that model over the WiFi model.

 

That's all I was trying to learn.

[gsxrpilot]

I have a 3G/4G iPad. I used it in the airplane for a full year before adding the Stratus 2. I actually bought an Elf GPS at the same time and sold it a month later as it wasn't needed.  My experience was that ForeFlight worked fine at any altitude except for new updated data such as weather, Metar's, etc. The "Pack" function ensures that the iPad is loaded with all the required charts, plates, NOTAMS, TFR's, etc. for your planned flight, before you leave the ground.

 

I do like having the 3G/4G functionality just on the odd chance I can't get a wifi signal and need to look something up when out at the airport. I don't use it much and it shares the data plan on my phone so doesn't cost any extra. But nice to have.

 

With the addition of the Stratus 2, I wonder why I waited so long. It's so good to have weather on the map at any altitude. The traffic feed is interesting, but hasn't been "important" yet. Checking up to date Metar's is also a really nice ability at altitude.  All in all, I could certainly fly without it, but it's very nice to have on the long cross country flights.  

 

I don't use the iPad for "navigation" per say. I have a Garmin 530W, HSI, VOR, etc. for that. But I do use the iPad to run what if scenarios. What it I asked for this routing? What if I landed here, what's the availability/price of fuel? What is the elevation of that Tower coming up? Those types of things are also fun for passing the time on long legs.

 

Hope that helps...

[jlunseth]

You have the gist of it.  The cellular version of the iPad has the built in GPS, but don't buy the cell version for the cell service, buy it for the GPS.  The GPS lets you see your location on Foreflight.  It works very well.  I have a 430AW and MX20 on the panel, so I see basically the exact same thing on the panel and tend to use Foreflight more for information needed at landing (such as frequencies or the taxiway diagram) and approach.  I used to watch my enroute progress on the iPad just for the fun of it, but now usually just shut it off and set it down.  It is occasionally useful for en route functions.  For example, this past weekend I was flying home to KFCM(Minneapolis) from KCPS (St. Louis) and somewhere over Iowa I realized I had not heard Chicago Center for awhile.  I tried the radio and could not reach them.  So rather than defaulting to the regulations for lost comm., I simply fired up the iPad, found the nearest large airport, found the Center frequency, and called on that frequency.  I immediately "found comm" that way.  I guess I could have done it with the NRST button on the 430 also, but the iPad worked well.

 

The best use of the GPS and Foreflight in my flights is for approaches and taxiing.  I get my location on both approach plates and on taxiway diagrams and it is very helpful.  For example, at KCPS I was told to taxi on Alpha to 12R.  Alpha and a short runway, 23, are very close together and I started to turn onto 23 but looked at the diagram and caught myself. 

 

On an approach, if you are off the approach for some reason, or the wind is blowing you badly out of a hold, the iPad will show that.

 

Overall, it is well worth having for the added safety and situational awareness.  I would not count on getting cellular reception in the air, but that is not why I have it.  The one thing the cellular is good for is getting a weather report from the iPad when you are at a remote airport with nothing but cell service.  It has saved my bacon that way more than once.

[midlifeflyer]

Yes that's exactly what I have.

 

However, I was wondering if I had to purchase another Ipad in the future and that said future purchase had a 3G/4G or even 5G, capabilities where and how much would it benefit me. Thus the question I posed.

 

If I had gotten a response that "it works to about 1,500' and then it fades out" then there really wouldn't be a good reason to even consider anything other than a wiFi version. The answers have been though that FF with a built in GPS model (3G/4G) works at altitude as well then it makes a future consideration for that model over the WiFi model.

 

That's all I was trying to learn.

 

The 3G/4G/5G will fade out. Like mobile calling itself, it's designed to be ground based.

 

The internal GPS will continue to work, although, since it has to "see" the satellites, different pilots in different parts of the country flying different airplanes at different times with their iPads mounted in different panes in the aircraft have different reports of its reliability. External iOS-compatible GPS units didn't show up solely to service the no-3G market; most of the EFP app producers recommend one be used (w're not talking Stratus; just a plain vanilla GPS unit costing $100 or less.

 

My own decision to go WiFi only was a combination of (1) feeling my needs for internet access on the ground would be met by WiFI and, in a pinch, tethering to my phone  and (2) a GPS that I tossed on the glare shield would pick up a more reliable signal than the one in the iPad, which might be in my lap. So far (4 years and 2 iPads later), I've been satisfied with the decision (4 years and 2 iPads later)