Custome & Border Patrol Finally stopped me--with armed police

[cujet]

  On 4/21/2014 at 1:10 PM, sleepingsquirrel said:

Speaking of which. I'd Like the OP's permission to forward his story to my representation , with the question,

                                             "Am I to expect this is likely to happen to me?"

 

I'd also like to forward this to my state representatives. Please consider giving us permission to use your experience and your words. 

[BigTex]

RockyDoc - If you don't want to go down the legal path, at least report it to AOPA so they can run with it.  It will provide additional ammo for AOPA to stand up for our rights.  

 

Here's a link to an AOPA questionnaire that makes it easy to report the incident.  

 

http://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/Security-and-Borders.aspx 

[sleepingsquirrel]

  On 4/21/2014 at 1:35 PM, rockydoc said:

Use it as you see fit if it serves your purpose.  You have my permission.

 Honorable Sir,

 I am concerned that I have come to expect this type of abuse of authority when flying for business or recreation. Is this what is allowed or expected in the United States of America? This did not happen to me, but concerns me.

Thank you for your consideration.

 Excerpted by permission of the writer:

"Finally it happened—I was detained and searched by Customs/Borderz Patrol while armed police stood by and watched.  Looking back on the blatant lies and pure intimidation that was used sickened me.  Here are the details:

1.      After landing, a customs agent approached my air craft and told me he was here to do a “pilot credentials” check.

         ..............................

................................

18.   Through out this entire process he was very beligerant and over powering.  Every time I tried to speak to give my side of anything, he refused to listen to me and told me to, “be quiet.”  I was very intimidated by him, but because of the AOPA’s guidelines and the prior discussions on this forum, I knew that it was important that I be friendly and cooperative—which I was."

Although I'm sure to regret this communication in the future I did it anyway!

Thank you for allowing me to use your post in it's entirety.

 

[cliffy]

I was at a CBP "Wings, FAA" forum recently and mention was made of some regulation that said in effect, that their authority to "inspect" extended to 100 miles from the border as being "proximate to the border area of responsibility". If the airplane at any time was within 100 miles of the border they said they had the same authority as if you were at a POE airport.

Not a lawyer and haven't seen the regulation but that is what was said.

This is why I feel a flight from Denver to Salina KS being inspected may have issues. Those who fly from or to CO now with the new reefer law may have issues of being checked. Have heard it said (I know, second hand info) that border states to CO have police watching the border and tagging cars that may be hauling grass out of CO. Why wouldn't CBP do the same? But, beyond 100 miles from the border.

[scottfromiowa]

  On 4/21/2014 at 11:57 AM, astelmaszek said:

It's actually a complete product now, with right and left written all over it. The right starting the drug war with Nixon and Reagan at the helm and taking it to extreme levels in the name of "freedom" and the children and then the left making sure that the rules apply equally and not just to darker toned fellows.

I will delete my original post. The intent was not to bring up evils of previous administrations, but merely to state that if you don't like how your government is being run now, VOTE.

[slowflyin]

I was surfing around investigating FAR 91.11 as it relates these kinds of stops and stumble onto this  contact info:

 

Ralph Modisette  

CBP Headquarters Program Manager, 

General Aviation – Private Aircraft Operators 

ralph.modisette@dhs.gov 

972-973-9844 

[231flyer]

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-aircraft-searches-20140415,0,7828658.story#ixzz2zEzu16Oq

[FlyDave]

  On 4/21/2014 at 4:53 PM, 231flyer said:

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-aircraft-searches-20140415,0,7828658.story#ixzz2zEzu16Oq

 

"Other pilots said they were told their flights were intercepted because of long travel distances, frequent course changes, landings at remote airports and questionable profiles such as flying east from California — all things they considered common occurrences in general aviation."

 

I guess if I don't want to get in trouble with these agencies I'll just have to start flying west from California....

 

P.S. I think they need a geography lesson....among others.

[flyboy0681]

  On 4/21/2014 at 4:53 PM, 231flyer said:

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-aircraft-searches-20140415,0,7828658.story#ixzz2zEzu16Oq

 

I just learned more about the program from reading this one article than anything I've read on the subject over the past year.

 

As always, 9/11 is cited.

[231flyer]

My wife, an attorney, advises me CBP is typically within its authorizations in many of these cases. The laws on illegal search and seizure tends to favor law enforcement agencies and legal action can be lengthy and expensive. There is no law requiring CBP to be courteous and some agents do stretch the power they are given.  Hopefully this a minority and smooths out over time.  

 

My dealings with the CBP and FAA thus far has been quite professional.  I often fly internationally (both airline and private) and have been ramp checked by the FAA over a half dozen times in my 23 years as a pilot.  CBP has a program called "Global Entry" that allows frequent travelers to sail through immigration and customs by completing a rigorous background check and registration.  The FBI conducts the investigation and you get to use the automated entry kiosks on your return stateside.  Its an absolute intrusion of privacy but I do get to skip the hour+ long lines at DFW,JFK,MIA etc..  A side benefit of the trusted traveler program is the aforementioned CBP "ramp checks".  Eg. on our arrival back from the Bahamas into FtPierce, the CBP officer cleared our family in less than 5 minutes and told me I had been pre-cleared due to my global-entry registration.  It seems the eAPIS program is linked and the inbound manifest flags a trusted traveler.  Global-Entry is too intrusive for some but an option and seems to help with CBP ramp checks.

[Awqward]

Mostly us foreigners look at aviation in the US with considerable envy.....I'm not put off by these stories....but every now and then we are reminded that all is not perfect

[flyboy0681]

  On 4/21/2014 at 8:42 PM, Awqward said:

Mostly us foreigners look at aviation in the US with considerable envy.....I'm not put off by these stories....but every now and then we are reminded that all is not perfect

 

American's take the freedom afforded us under the Constitution very seriously and the freedom of flight is one of its many benefits, unlike anywhere else on the planet. With a few exceptions, such as terminal airspace and prohibited areas, we are free to fly unfettered around every inch of the country, all 3.8 million square miles.

 

When a government agency attempts to interfere with that freedom, we take it very seriously and require justification. But like most countries around the world, government agencies feel the need to overreach and step out of bounds under the guise of national security.

[Cruiser]

231flyer,

 

Good info to know about Customs and the pre cleared trusted traveler program. For those people that frequently travel internationally this could be a benefit.

 

I doubt this would have helped the OP since he had already cleared customs into the USA the previous day and was on a flight between US airports. 

[rockydoc]

  On 4/21/2014 at 3:02 PM, cujet said:

I'd also like to forward this to my state representatives. Please consider giving us permission to use your experience and your words. 

By all means.  Use my story in anyway you please.

[Yetti]

If you went direct to Kbro to 3r7 then you were probably out in the ADIZ.  I would have to guess the entering the country earlier and this event were separate events.  You just looked like you were running people or drugs up from the mexican border.  You fit the profile.

 

Does not mean that you or your passenger were to be treated poorly or dogs should be let loose on your paint job.

[aviatoreb]

Rockeydoc, I am so sorry to hear of this assault - and doubly disgusting as it was afforded by a so-called law enforcement official.  It is obscene.

 

As for the damage - does anyone know if damage like - reassembly, plus repaint -  this might be covered by insurance?  It is not an act of God such as hail damage, but it is damage of no fault by the owner.  It is worth asking your insurance carrier.  Fingers crossed for you.

[aviatoreb]

  On 4/21/2014 at 3:44 PM, cliffy said:

I was at a CBP "Wings, FAA" forum recently and mention was made of some regulation that said in effect, that their authority to "inspect" extended to 100 miles from the border as being "proximate to the border area of responsibility".

 

 

It is an authority that they extend regularly around here.  I live 15 miles from the Canadian border.  We regularly have to drive through CBP check points in the middle of farmland anywhere around here well within the border.  I have even many times been out on a bike ride and run across a "Border patrol" check point within the border. Usually they wave me through when I am on a bike ride but one time they did stop me and question me where I was going - on a skinny wheel bike and wearing tight lycra bike gear - go ahead and figure what I wasn't smuggling. Where was I going?  No where in particular!  I was keeping fit!

[NotarPilot]

  On 4/22/2014 at 3:05 AM, aviatoreb said:

Usually they wave me through when I am on a bike ride but one time they did stop me and question me where I was going - on a skinny wheel bike and wearing tight lycra bike gear - go ahead and figure what I wasn't smuggling.

Olives?

[Yetti]

if you have not watched these videos... good information of why you should never talk to the police. 

 

 

My Plan would be:

 

If they bring the cars around the plane and you are in the plane gather documents up before exiting.   Have key ready lock plane after exiting.

 

If they meet you on the ramp, keep walking (because you need to pee) to neutral building as if you have never seen that plane before in your life.

 

Present:

Pilot certificate, photo ID, medical certificate.  Aircraft Registration

 

Any questions past that:

 

"At this time I would like to terminate this interview" "Am I free to go"

 

Only the FAA can ask for the AWC or weight and balance - registration is printed on the side of the plane in big letters.  The CBP is not charged with enforcing FARs.

 

All the questions they are asking you are trying to get you off your footing.

"At this time I would like to terminate this interview" "Am I free to go"

[Z W]

CBP would like to claim the U.S. Constitution's prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures does not apply within 100 miles of the border.  To my knowledge, no judge has ever ruled on the issue in the context of a private GA aircraft on a domestic flight.

 

You will note that the officer that stopped Rockydoc tried very hard to get consent to search.  He also went to all the trouble of using a dog to get a "hit" which removes the requirement to get a warrant.  He did not just walk up and start searching without probable cause.  If CBP was relying on the "100 mile" exception, they would not need any kind of warrant or probable cause.  They could just walk down the line of aircraft on the ramp at any airport within the 100 mile ring, tearing them apart, without the owner's consent or any kind of judicial oversight.

 

They could do the same with any car parked on any street in any city in America within 100 miles of the border.  Possibly any house too.

 

Do you think a judge is going to approve that interpretation of the law?

[Yetti]

If he flew offshore in the Gulf back from Brownsville, CBP would claim he has crossed the border and "re entered the country".  Is the border the shoreline,  ADIZ or the 12 or 24 mile claimed US legal boundary, the courts can't figure that one out....

[flyboy0681]

  On 4/22/2014 at 11:29 AM, Yetti said:

if you have not watched these videos... good information of why you should never talk to the police.

 

 

 

 

Present:

Pilot certificate, photo ID, medical certificate.  Aircraft Registration

Fair enough

 

Any questions past that:

 

"At this time I would like to terminate this interview" "Am I free to go"

This stop will terminate when I say it's over and you've complied with my requests. You are free to go but the aircraft has to stay and will be moved to another area of the airport.

 

Only the FAA can ask for the AWC or weight and balance - registration is printed on the side of the plane in big letters.  The CBP is not charged with enforcing FARs.

I'm going to ask you one more time, please show me the aircraft's printed registration.

 

 

"At this time I would like to terminate this interview" "Am I free to go"

You are free to go but the aircraft must remain.

[aviatoreb]

This is really upsetting that this is going on in this country - it shakes our impression of what we think this country should be and what it really is.

 

I am supposed to take my oldest son Atlantic Salmon fishing on the Mirimachi river near Moncton, NB for two days starting Sunday (or so) to catch the spring thaw-run.  This thread is making me second guess if it is worth it.

[cujet]

  On 4/22/2014 at 11:34 AM, Zane Williams said:

 He also went to all the trouble of using a dog to get a "hit" which removes the requirement to get a warrant.   

 

The use of a drug sniffing dog is not an "end run" around the Constitution. Period. 

[flyboy0681]

  On 4/22/2014 at 2:31 PM, cujet said:

The use of a drug sniffing dog is not an "end run" around the Constitution. Period. 

 

Until you argue that point in front of a judge - it is.