Custome & Border Patrol Finally stopped me--with armed police

[Yetti]

Response to above seizure of Aircraft by CBP.

 

"Please issue me a receipt for the seizure of the aircraft under code 19 162 or 19 171 "   "I will be filing a part 171 with your office to have the property returned"

 

I would think that Rockdoc's plane was actually seized for several hours (that weird traffic stop time frame where you are not under arrest and not free to go) and he was not issued a receipt stating why it was seized.... So the CBP agent did not comply with 19  171.55   It also looks like there was not cause to seize the plane under 162.75.

[Yetti]

The use of a drug sniffing dog is not an "end run" around the Constitution. Period. 

It is if the handler causes the dog to "hit", which is easy to do.

[BigTex]

One word... Fascist.

[cujet]

This is really upsetting that this is going on in this country - it shakes our impression of what we think this country should be and what it really is.

 

I am supposed to take my oldest son Atlantic Salmon fishing on the Mirimachi river near Moncton, NB for two days starting Sunday (or so) to catch the spring thaw-run.  This thread is making me second guess if it is worth it.

 

Oh, it's worth it. Exercise your freedoms while you can. I can't predict what the future will bring, but we certainly have "creeping authoritarianism" and if things continue on this path...

 

I am old enough to remember carrying my 22 rifle (unloaded) down the hall in my High School, to the "rifle club" range out back. 

[rockydoc]

If you went direct to Kbro to 3r7 then you were probably out in the ADIZ.  I would have to guess the entering the country earlier and this event were separate events.  You just looked like you were running people or drugs up from the mexican border.  You fit the profile.

 

Does not mean that you or your passenger were to be treated poorly or dogs should be let loose on your paint job.

I did not go direct to KNEW from KBRO.  I got flight following and went north to Corpus Crist, then to Galvaston then to Jennings, LA (3R&) taking care to avoid restricted areas and ADIZ.  I landed in Jennings (3R&) and refueled.  Took off again and went from 3R7 to KNEW where they were waiting for me even though I had cleared customs at KBRO the day before.

[Smiles201]

Just to play devils advocate...They intercepted about 200 flights and found drugs in almost 40 of these planes. If my job was to find drugs, I would be real aggressive with these searches and these pilots because I know that 20 percent of the time they are the bad guys and may be involved in other illegal activity. And I know I can take extraordinary measures and won't get in trouble. As long as we continue to have repressive drug laws, we will continue to have these types of enforcement problems. I live close to the border in New Mexico and have nothing to hide. That said I would not be surprised to hear of drugs being planted by overly aggressive agents. There was recently a case of border patrol agents being successfully sued for an illegal cavity search. So, it could have been alot worse.

[aaronk25]

This is really upsetting that this is going on in this country - it shakes our impression of what we think this country should be and what it really is.

I am supposed to take my oldest son Atlantic Salmon fishing on the Mirimachi river near Moncton, NB for two days starting Sunday (or so) to catch the spring thaw-run. This thread is making me second guess if it is worth it.

After the honey moon I flew from Merida MX to KBRO squaking 1200 and called KBRO tower at 35 miles out and after landing tower asked me where I was parking and I replied "don't I have to go though customs"? Tower replied, oh yes park over there. Customs waved me inside asked about fruits or vegetables and told them there was a banana somewhere under the huge pile of wedding stuff and he said I'm not worried about that, any apples or illegals stuff? Said no, and we were on our way.

He slightly razzed me for spelling my wife's name wrong (typo) and putting down a arrival time of 3am instead of 3pm.....I was rushing filling out the epais since I had last min changes and a MX flight plan about to expire and weather moving in.

Anyway considering they didn't even look in the window of the plane I think 99% of the time it's painless.

The 5 times I've flown to canada they have never even come out to the plane, just call the phone number and they asked a couple questions and they gave me a entry code to wright down.

Aaron

[cujet]

It is if the handler causes the dog to "hit", which is easy to what they do.

 

Fixed it for you. 

 

 

"Until you argue that point in front of a judge - it is."

Since when are my Constitutional rights subject to a Judge's decision? 

[DaV8or]

I did not go direct to KNEW from KBRO.  I got flight following and went north to Corpus Crist, then to Galvaston then to Jennings, LA (3R&) taking care to avoid restricted areas and ADIZ.  I landed in Jennings (3R&) and refueled.  Took off again and went from 3R7 to KNEW where they were waiting for me even though I had cleared customs at KBRO the day before.

 

From this and this...

 

 

Determining what flights to intercept starts at the Air and Marine Operations Center at the March Air Reserve Base in Riverside. Able to tap 700 radar installations in the U.S. and neighboring countries, the center can track up to 50,000 aircraft and ships at any time.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-aircraft-searches-20140415,0,7828658.story#ixzz2zdRYtAls

 

I say screw IFR and VFR flight following! Squawk 1200.

[flyboy0681]

 

 

 

My point is that if one goes spewing "Constitutional Rights" here and "Constitutional Rights" there in front of the officer, he'll gladly have you arrested and you'll be able to tell your entire side of the story, and how your rights were violated, in front of a federal judge. Hopefully he will have your ear and sympathize.

 

Face it, in these cases the cards are stacked against us.

[Cruiser]

In unrelated news..........

 

As part of a new initiative, President Obama plans to step up the number of nonviolent drug officers he considers for clemency.

 

Does anyone else see the irony here?

[flyboy0681]

In unrelated news..........

 

As part of a new initiative, President Obama plans to step up the number of nonviolent drug officers he considers for clemency.

 

Does anyone else see the irony here?

 

Maybe it's just my denseness, but I don't understand the statement.  Step up the number of nonviolent drug officers?

[Yetti]

 

My point is that if one goes spewing "Constitutional Rights" here and "Constitutional Rights" there in front of the officer, he'll gladly have you arrested and you'll be able to tell your entire side of the story, and how your rights were violated, in front of a federal judge. Hopefully he will have your ear and sympathize.

 

Face it, in these cases the cards are stacked against us.

 

Your quotes are messed up.... I did not say that.   I was saying to not participate in the interview.   You will not beat the ride, but a good lawyer will beat the wrap.    All you are betting here is that he does not want to do the paperwork involved in escalating the situation and he was just stopping by the airport to go home earlier.  If he does want to do the paperwork you are screwed anyway.   Complying got hours of delay, the plane taken apart and paint job scratched in this instance

[aviatoreb]

After the honey moon I flew from Merida MX to KBRO squaking 1200 and called KBRO tower at 35 miles out and after landing tower asked me where I was parking and I replied "don't I have to go though customs"? Tower replied, oh yes park over there. Customs waved me inside asked about fruits or vegetables and told them there was a banana somewhere under the huge pile of wedding stuff and he said I'm not worried about that, any apples or illegals stuff? Said no, and we were on our way.

He slightly razzed me for spelling my wife's name wrong (typo) and putting down a arrival time of 3am instead of 3pm.....I was rushing filling out the epais since I had last min changes and a MX flight plan about to expire and weather moving in.

Anyway considering they didn't even look in the window of the plane I think 99% of the time it's painless.

The 5 times I've flown to canada they have never even come out to the plane, just call the phone number and they asked a couple questions and they gave me a entry code to wright down.

Aaron

 

I have crossed the border exactly 3 times (not including over flying Canada to Michigan) and each of the three times it was not exactly pleasant but hardly the experience described here - one of the times was definitely a full one hour ramp check.

 

Occasion 1 about 2 years ago, a friend here and I (another professor and a pilot from MAE), decided we wanted to learn EAPIS so we would fly to Canada and practice doing all the rules.  So we flew to CYCC which is a total of 30nm from my home base of KPTD.  We had canpass.  So it was very easy going to Canada.  No one even met us in Canada so no problem we called the number - welcome to Canada.  Then we turned around to return home.  Now in these rural airports you need to get up pretty high to catch ATC - Boston Center - in fact we had to get up to 5000ft in a 30nm trip that is pretty goofy - who would do such a thing and go to all the trouble of filing eapis, calling a head to make sure we would have CBP waiting for us and so forth if they were bad guys?  Well we flew up to 5000ft, opened the flight plan, then dived down to KMSS (the port of entry) and did everything by the book.  A single CBP agent was waiting for us - but he was most unpleasant.  For an hour he interrogated us, dog sniffing the airplane (but did not climb on) and geiger counter.  And he asked for every possible paper work.  This did not cross the line but it was most unpleasant.

 

Next time about a year later I took my (then 16 year old) son to New Brunswick.  I decided to check in at Burlington.  Turns out there was a big military transport coming right after us so when I called to tell them I was coming they said I better hurry or don't come back.  (Don't come back?!!)  So I hurried - and I beat the big transport plane.  They left me sitting in front of the CBP building inside the airplane for 15 min before anyone came out.  Then a guy came out and walked around the airplane with a dog and then went back in - no eye contact.  And we continued to sit in the plane - sweating in the summer.  Then another guy came out - geiger counter.  Walked around - no eye contact.  Still sitting.  Then after a few minutes another guy came out and addressed us and we got out - he was curt but it was not a problem.  It was only 5 minutes at that point standard questions.

 

Next time was a few months after that - I flew back from Nova Scotia with my (then 11 year old) son.  My 11 year old is not a good flyer and he had gotten air sick upon landing and he had vomit on his shirt and he looked most quessy.  So it took just a few minutes for the CBP to approach the plane and had told my son he could sit on the wing outside the plane on the black walking strip while I sit in the plane.  The two CBP started as if they were going to be very stern but as soon as I explained my son had just thrown up and they looked at him it was like a light switch and they turned downright friendly and very friendly to my son.  ANd that took like two min.

 

So I guess the key is to show up with an 11 year old with vomit on his shirt.

[Yetti]

or pee your pants when they won't let you go to the bathroom

[cujet]

 

My point is that if one goes spewing "Constitutional Rights" here and "Constitutional Rights" there in front of the officer, he'll gladly have you arrested and you'll be able to tell your entire side of the story, and how your rights were violated, in front of a federal judge. Hopefully he will have your ear and sympathize.

 

Face it, in these cases the cards are stacked against us.

 

Oh, gotcha. 

 

I was thinking about the evils of case law. Completely off track...

 

It's a good idea to keep quiet around any government official. In my various dealings with them, I keep nearly 100% quiet. 

[fantom]

So I guess the key is to show up with an 11 year old with vomit on his shirt.

You don't even need the child.

We have a guy here who has done a fair amount of out of country flying with samples of his last 15 meals on his shirt and stains from lots more on his ten day old smelly cargo pants. CBP wouldn't come near him or his plane for fear of the stench.

The American Constitution is an amazing document that even our Supreme Court has trouble interpreting. What a thankless, suck-ass job CBP must be, subject incident not withstanding.

These will be the 'good old days' after nukes proliferate the Middle East.

[triple8s]

Is this those wing scratching dog?..

[DaV8or]

Is this those wing scratching dog?..image.jpg

 

That one did a great job! Got all the paint off!

[N201MKTurbo]

I wonder how the drug dogs would behave if you had a very aggressive dog with you?

[sleepingsquirrel]

I wonder how the drug dogs would behave if you had a very aggressive dog with you?

......or one in heat.

[Guest]

I wonder how the drug dogs would behave if you had a very aggressive dog with you?

My guess is that if your dog was felt to be attacking the police dog which is considered an officer, the human officer would be obliged to protect his partner by shooting your dog.

Clarence

[scottfromiowa]

Oh, it's worth it. Exercise your freedoms while you can. I can't predict what the future will bring, but we certainly have "creeping authoritarianism" and if things continue on this path...

 

I am old enough to remember carrying my 22 rifle (unloaded) down the hall in my High School, to the "rifle club" range out back.

I did a 3 minute speech on assembly and disassembley of an M1928A1 Thompson Submachinegun for my freshman English class. My dad had a replica. Can U imagine that in the 21st Century Public School System....?

NOPE.

[slowflyin]

I would be interested in the dog's record. He obviously offered a false positive in this case. How many times does he (or the dog handler team) have to be wrong before probable cause is no longer valid?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[scottfromiowa]

Post pulled. Language? More censorship here than on cable. What is worse, loss of freedom as a pilot or loss of freedom of speech?

Why do you have to decide how much is too much erosion of your rights?

SAD.