Will the real Ed Kollin please stand-up!

[PTK]

I know a few people were adamant wanting to wait for Sun & Fun for official announcement from CM.

 

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/11686-fyi-camguard-and-continental-motors/?p=144443

Well, now that S&F is over and we know the facts from CM, I think it's an opportune time for Mr. Kollin to acknowledge the truth and correct his statement regarding Continental Motors warranties!

Mr. Kollin, the floor is yours Sir!

[Alan Fox]

I had a clean shot to put that sticker on yesterday , and I bumbled it..........

[DS1980]

Does the sticker say, "Sorry Pete, I guess I stretched the truth just a tad. Signed, Ed."?

[Marauder]

I had a clean shot to put that sticker on yesterday , and I bumbled it..........

Chalk it up to age Alan...

Sent using Tapatalk

[PTK]

Chris, about that Amish prepared crow.

http://mooneyspace.com/topic/11686-fyi-camguard-and-continental-motors/?p=144608

Have you sent it to Ed Kollin yet? Will he have it in time to enjoy for Easter?

[Marauder]

Amish prepared crow is a delicate process. It needs to stew slowly in a simmering pot of CamGuard. BTW - I feel for Ed. Won't be the first person caught up in the fervor of anticipated marketing, only to see something else delivered. Also BTW - my plane sits directly across from a Piper who had to have his engine rebuilt because of corrosion on the cam. If there is ANY documented proof that CamGuard prevents this, I would buy it - no questions asked... The problem is that to get this data, requires a fairly complex study group with accurate data collection over a long period of time. Then again, he could could try to advance this by using a scientific study that tries to emulate weathering over a period of time -- only accelerated. A number of vendors do this. Preventing engine damage due to low usage is like trying to validate the merits of supplements. Vitamin E is good, no, it's bad, no, it's good, no it's bad

[carusoam]

There are plenty of old cams that can be cleaned up and have them set out in the yard.

Proving that the cam guard works on actual cams...

The important part of testing is it is done with...

- the right materials

- that have seen the right processes( machining, hardening, honing, etc.)

- then they hang out in our right environments, hot, acidic, oily followed by moist, cool, drip dry....repeat

Something like that...

Then prove that it doesn't alter the lubrication nature of the oil that it is in.

Best regards,

-a-

[BigTex]

Or you could just throw some steel plates out in the yard, some coated in oil with and some without Camguard, and see which rusts the soonest. That's what Aviation Consumer did several years ago, and they concluded that CamGuard works. That combined with Ed's educational and work pedigree is enough for me.

Jim

 

+1

[Sabremech]

There are plenty of old cams that can be cleaned up and have them set out in the yard.

Proving that the cam guard works on actual cams...

The important part of testing is it is done with...

- the right materials

- that have seen the right processes( machining, hardening, honing, etc.)

- then they hang out in our right environments, hot, acidic, oily followed by moist, cool, drip dry....repeat

Something like that...

Then prove that it doesn't alter the lubrication nature of the oil that it is in.

Best regards,

-a-

+1

[DaV8or]

+1

 

Hey, you're an A&P right? You probably can get in touch with people that have junk cams right? You might be just the guy.

[DaV8or]

Or you could just throw some steel plates out in the yard, some coated in oil with and some without Camguard, and see which rusts the soonest. That's what Aviation Consumer did several years ago, and they concluded that CamGuard works. That combined with Ed's educational and work pedigree is enough for me.

Jim

 

Yep. Hate to break it to folks, but there will never be a scientific study on any oil additive, or even oils themselves. The reason being, who would pay the big bucks to have it done?

 

Since no one will ever properly study this, I have to side with AV Consumer's metal plates in the yard and anecdotal evidence. It's the best we have and nobody is stepping up with any other solution other than fly your plane every week for an hour. This is not always possible, so...

[Marauder]

There are plenty of old cams that can be cleaned up and have them set out in the yard.

Proving that the cam guard works on actual cams...

The important part of testing is it is done with...

- the right materials

- that have seen the right processes( machining, hardening, honing, etc.)

- then they hang out in our right environments, hot, acidic, oily followed by moist, cool, drip dry....repeat

Something like that...

Then prove that it doesn't alter the lubrication nature of the oil that it is in.

Best regards,

-a-

+2 Anthony - has this pegged. In measuring stability of anything, it needs to duplicate real world conditions.

Sent using Tapatalk

[Cruiser]

real world conditions would be a twin running one engine with camguard and one without. It could be that easy, oh, wait....... Mooney doesn't make a twin.

The comparison would be the costs of maintenance for each engine compared. anyone can claim anything they want about performance and benefits. The bottom line would be how much $$$$$$$ does it cost to use and how much $$$$$$$ will it save.

[201er]

real world conditions would be a twin running one engine with camguard and one without. It could be that easy, oh, wait....... Mooney doesn't make a twin.

The comparison would be the costs of maintenance for each engine compared. anyone can claim anything they want about performance and benefits. The bottom line would be how much $$$$$$$ does it cost to use and how much $$$$$$$ will it save.

I know of at least one on mooneyspace Id be willing to sacrifice.

[KSMooniac]

real world conditions would be a twin running one engine with camguard and one without.

Mike Busch sorta did this with his 310 for a year I believe. His oil analysis results were so compelling he then continued on with both engines.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk

[PTK]

Amish prepared crow is a delicate process. It needs to stew slowly in a simmering pot of CamGuard. BTW - I feel for Ed. Won't be the first person caught up in the fervor of anticipated marketing, only to see something else delivered.

Send him some humble pie too for dessert to cheer him up!

[Marauder]

I wonder if Ed ran into something like Continental being concerned by the Magnusson-Ferguson Act? You cannot deny a warranty claim unless there is evidence that what the consumer did or didn't do affected the product's reliability or intended function. Sent using Tapatalk

[PTK]

What Ed ran into is a brick wall of his making. It's the truth blowing up in his face.

He made a calculated statement about another company's warranty policies. He had no business doing that. Especially when he knew what he was saying was not true! His statement was aimed at gaining merit for his additive.

You just can't do that. Who are you trying to fool? At the end of the day it's your reputation that suffers because your own customers and following question your ethics. You have to value their good will and trust more than that because it's priceless. Once you lose it you never regain it.

It would've been so simple instead to stand on his own two feet and state the facts. He knew what they were.

[Sabremech]

Hey, you're an A&P right? You probably can get in touch with people that have junk cams right? You might be just the guy.

 

 What good would a junk cam do? Sitting it out in the front yard and using anecdotal evidence as proof that it works in lieu of real world operating conditions is hardly an apples to apples comparison.

 

 If you like it or think it works, by all means use it. I choose not to and make no recommendations for it if I'm asked.

 

 David

[Bob_Belville]

I ordered a case, 12 pints, of CamGuard from Spruce this week. (Price is $15/pt. vs. $25. I'll share my 3 year supply with a friend or two and my A&P.)

 

It is back ordered. Make of that what you will. 

[Marauder]

I ordered a case, 12 pints, of CamGuard from Spruce this week. (Price is $15/pt. vs. $25. I'll share my 3 year supply with a friend or two and my A&P.)

 

It is back ordered. Make of that what you will. 

 

Peter (PTK) put in a HUGE stocking order. That is the reason for the backorder.

[Sabremech]

Peter (PTK) put in a HUGE stocking order. That is the reason for the backorder.

 

 Nah, that was me. I'm going to try it on my patio furniture first and see what the results are before using it in my Mooney !

[Bob_Belville]

I ordered a case, 12 pints, of CamGuard from Spruce this week. (Price is $15/pt. vs. $25. I'll share my 3 year supply with a friend or two and my A&P.)

 

It is back ordered. Make of that what you will. 

+1 for Aircraft Spruce. They advised me yesterday that the CamGuard was on back-order. This evening they advised it shipped... Fed Ex! (I had spec'd USPS, the cheapest choice.) 

[mike_elliott]

That was actually pretty funny.  Good one, David!

 

Jim

I hope he didn't buy them completely out, Ed is donating some Camguard as a door prize for the next Mooney Summit. Thanks Ed! Maybe we can get Pete to donate a dental camera (they make great Borescopes) to match the generosity of his BFF.  

[PTK]

When is the next Mooney Summit?