Mooney ... Sold to the Chinese?

[aviatoreb]

From a future of Mooney aircraft, current fleet and future, I see this as a good thing.  I would much rather a Chineese backed company building Mooneys, upkeeping the type certificate, and maybe even innovating new concepts, than nobody.  That is clear to me.

 

I love the idea of somebody designing new Mooneys.  Two doors, wider, 6 seats, turbine, diesel, parachute, autoland autopilot, whatever the market might want and fund, even if the market is largely Asian, we can only benefit if it means a working factory even if we are flying classic birds.

[fantom]

When the dollar collapses, and it will, better not be in short term real estate with little quick liquidity. Hard commodities that you understand well, are a better bet, as is a big vegetable garden.

 

By keeping your savings on deposit in the bank you're investing in the dollar. And you are choosing to trust Washington to not inflate away the purchasing power of those dollars. Does that sound wise, especially given the karaoke dance going on up there by people with no statesmanship, no willingness or ability to negotiate for the greater good, nor any idea of the long term implications of their short sighted partisan actions.

 

America’s deficits are spiraling out of control. Eventually this is going to cause a crisis is the dollar. The Fed’s massive money-printing operation means inflation is virtually guaranteed. Higher taxes are coming. Protecting yourself from long-term dollar weakness is critical.

 

Investing in gold, silver, the Canadian dollar, the Australian dollar, and the Norwegian krone. The Canadian dollar, the Australian dollar and the Norwegian krone are what’s known as “commodity currencies.” They offer exposure to economies that do well in a weak dollar environment. These countries also have sounder fiscal and monetary policies than the U.S as reflected in the performance over the past year of these currencies versus the dollar. The Canadian dollar is up 22% versus the dollar this past year and the Australian dollar is up 42% versus the dollar in the same period. Gold and silver also perform well when the dollar is weak. That is why elite hedge fund managers such as George Soros have recently made big bets on gold—they know the dollar’s days are numbered. Soros’s single biggest investment is now in the yellow metal, as he's does all he can to crater the dollar. He's just repeating his homelands model.

 

Sorry to say it's going to happen before you hit retirement age, Scott.

[PMcClure]

Anyone want to train Pilots in China? There will be plenty of opportunity in the coming future. They are training in the US and going home to work.

The Chinese people are as wonderful as their American counterparts. Their American trained engineers are just as smart. Their pilots can be equally trained...

Their capitalism is growing and their communism is slowly changing. Their people are growing their base line of education.

We are Truly living in unusual and interesting times. The systems that have been proven winners are readily accepted in far away places. Capitalism, Christianity, democracy and IFR flight are the ones that I am personally familiar with.

I bought a factory reman IO550 from a Chinese company. It is identical quality as the ones that were built the weeks before it by an American owned company. Where the profit goes is the only difference. Since the profits didn't come to me before, I expect little to change.

Yes it's dissapointing that American companies cannot stay American. The world is globalizing.

Embrace the change. You may have more in common with the Chinese people than you probably imagine...

Modern business are directed by their customer base. I hope we buy from the factory in place of buying the cheaper, lower quality parts...

It's our choice.

Send personal message directly to me. I'll be watching my PMs...

Best regards,

-a-

I agree with some of this, but I have a different point of view. I am writing this from SE Asia and have spent years working inside factories in China and all over Asia. I have a lot of respect for the ingenuity of some Chinese engineers. But I have yet to find a factory in China that I would trust my or my customer's brand with. I work in the food and packaging business. 

 

I would buy an engine from a Chinese owned company. But I would not buy a engine made in China and strap it onto the front of my bird and put my family in it. No way, period. 

 

If you trust Chinese capitalism, let me take you into my dream home that is full of toxic Chinese drywall. I am on my 5th year of dealing with that nightmare. My family was made sick and I have taken a $500k plus loss. 

 

If you trust Chinese capitalism, let me introduce you to the dozens and dozens of families that lost their family pet to tainted dog food that was imported under a USA brand. If you trust Chinese capitalism, read about the 100's of babies killed by tainted milk. Do you remember the cheap Chinese tires that were imported and failed? How about the anti-biotic filled catfish imported. These incidents were not accidents, but done by greedy business people who cut corners and were watching ONLY the bottom line. 

 

I am not being racist about these things, these are cold facts. The system is corrupt and we are closing our eyes in the name of cheap luxury. America needs to wake up. China is beating us at our own game. 

 

Should Mooney by bought by a Chinese company - not for me to decide. If they are up for sale and the Chinese have the cash, it will happen. But it is up to us to decide if we will buy critical parts from a Chinese factory. Would I buy a Chinese refurbished airframe, not in a million years. 

 

There are ways to do it and there are decent people and businesses in China. But I don't start from a point of trust when doing business in China. The world is globalizing and China is improving. But there is a long way to go before I will ever ever buy a Chinese airplane. I won't even buy a can of mushrooms made in China.

 

I hope they keep manufacturing in USA and take technology back to China to develop the home market. I know I sound like a paranoid dinosaur. But I do have a upclose and personal point of view. Sorry if this post offends anyone.

[N601RX]

In a previous job in the aerospace industry we started using China made Steel to machine gears and shafts out of.  After machining they went through a heat treat process.  One day they just stopped getting hard.  Further investigation revealed that the steel did not contain any carbon, although the raw stock was marked as an alloy that should.  They had also provided certs showing that they had tested it and is was correct.

[John Pleisse]

A lot of love for China on this thread. I am skeptical. They have a long history of patent and copyright infringement. From a manufacturing stand point, they have built a lot of shoddy junk. Additionally, the world has used China to build their heavily regulated factory projects with China's cheap labor and lax pollution standards.Their infrastructure growth is outpacing their ability to inspect and protect their citizens. We have seen buildings, bridges and roads collapse resulting from bad work. Not an indictment of the Chinese people. But given the last decade, I am weary of a China about to cut their teeth in general aviation. Don't get me wrong, eventually, they will succeed. It is the transformation that will be very tedious, with Mooney in the middle.

[jkhirsch]

Hi-jacked here..........I am now obligated to mention that the money multipler is currently less than zero which is why there is no inflation now, because the Money Supply = Money Multipler * Monetary Base, and "printing money" only affects the base.  As the Fed begins to "see an end" they can reverse the massive growth in the Monetary Base that QE has created by selling securities.

 

I think it's also perilous to ignore the novelty of the situation that we are in as a country.

 

It's important to distinguish between objective and subjective information, all of mine is purely mechanical and objective.

[markejackson02]

It must be true.  Wikipedia's page for Mooney has already been updated.

[pirate]

W E L L......... T H I S ......... T O T T A L Y ...................S U C K S................

[Mooneymite]

I'm old enough to remember when Americans felt the same way about Japanese products.  "Jap-junk" was just starting to enter the U. S. Market when I was a kid.  Cheap toys and bottom of the market merchandise were the entry point, but their progress was slow, but steady.  I don't know that the Chinese have the same ability to constantly improve their products, but starting at the bottom worked out pretty well for at least that Asian country.

 

Time will tell.

 

If given the choice between Mooney being out of business, or Chinese, I think we'll all agree a Chinese Mooney is better than no Mooney at all.

[fantom]

新的一天曙光

 

[Txbyker]

del

[John Pleisse]

Hi-jacked here..........I am now obligated to mention that the money multipler is currently less than zero which is why there is no inflation now, because the Money Supply = Money Multipler * Monetary Base, and "printing money" only affects the base.  As the Fed begins to "see an end" they can reverse the massive growth in the Monetary Base that QE has created by selling securities.

 

I think it's also perilous to ignore the novelty of the situation that we are in as a country.

 

It's important to distinguish between objective and subjective information, all of mine is purely mechanical and objective.

 

In a perfect world, yes, where nothing goes wrong and there are no outside factors or acts of god unforeseen. It's like flying around over-gross....you can do it, you just can't run into volatility. Also, none of this has trickled to the consumer level. It will.

[carusoam]

N435...

That's not love for china...

That's love for the people of china that are like us.

There are plenty of people that are not like us...

There is no love for people that cheat, lie or steal or shortcut the quality process...

Just saying...

-a-

[John Pleisse]

Anthony-agreed. But the country, as a whole, has a recent systemic history.

[KSMooniac]

 

Sorry to say it's going to happen before you hit retirement age, Scott.

 

 

I hit the "like this" button because (a) you're very likely correct and ( b ) there is no "dislike this" button!

 

I'm optimistic the purchase will mean good things for Mooney.  Some of our money coming back to Texas, maybe enough to update the product line?  Time will tell.  I would be completely shocked if there were plans to move everything over there and start building planes.  If so, I would not purchase one or parts sourced over there.  The Chinese *can* build some quality products, but they also build a lot of crap.  The copyright and patent infringement comments are spot-on, as well as the companies that outright lie about quality control and material specs.  Just this week I had a burned out light bulb (GE Halogen) that didn't last as nearly as long as it should...had another one from the 2-pack and installed it and it didn't work at all right out of the box.  It took some searching, but yes, even our light bulbs are made in China now.  I don't have much respect for GE with all of their political maneuvering and massive tax avoidance schemes...it also seems they have quality avoidance in some areas too.

 

Buying an engine or parts made in China scares me greatly.  Imagine an engine full of connecting rods that skipped heat treat, or cylinders cast with the sub-standard aluminum.  No thanks!  The FAA will NEVER have enough oversight to sufficiently guarantee any quality.  Heck, they don't even do a great job over here with that task.

 

A Chinese owned Mooney, Cirrus, or Continental doesn't bother me that much beyond the lament that our country is doomed in the long run.  I don't think we can fix it anyway with our military-grade stupid population that can only vote themselves handouts.

[Marauder]

China is no different than we were when we through our version of the industrial revolution. We stripped mined, deforested and managed to pollute ourselves while people got rich on it.

 

This happened in the U.S., not China: http://www.nbcnews.com/health/salmonella-tied-foster-farms-chicken-hospitalizes-dozens-may-be-drug-6C11357570

[Seth]

I called my Mooney Service Center and they found out from the internet and calls just like we did.  They have not yet recieved word from Mooney directly (maybe one or two of the premeir MSCs have, but not mine).

 

-Seth

[jax88]

I'm with a previous poster, if any of you are interested in unloading your Chinese piece of junk, let me know.  I wouldn't mind having an Ovation or Bravo.

 

[DAVIDWH]

If you have ever seen Ford motor co's engine plant in Chon-Ching (The largest industrial city on planet earth at 29.19 million people), you would not be too concerned.

 

or as Crocodile Dundee would say "No worries mate."

 

After the on going frustration of dealing with Kerrville for parts, how could customer service get any worse??

[Txbyker]

I don't want to turn this into anything political, but given the industry, state of affairs in D.C., and our aging fleet it is nice to know someone with some financial firepower can fire this fleet up.  Composite Acclaim anyone?  Please Mr. Chinese business man, can you give me WAAS for my old decrepit G1000?

[fantom]

 Please Mr. Chinese business man, can you give me WAAS for my old decrepit G1000?

 

Sure, for $3,500 with a MTBF of about six months

[PMcClure]

I have seen some great factories in China and some that just looked great. Haven't been to the Ford factory, but I suspect it is amazing. But I have been to enough small to medium size factories over the last 13 years to know that things are not always as they seem. I have also had enough quality problems to pull out of China all together. I know enough that I don't want a Chinese made engine or prop on my plane and sure as heck won't fly in a refurbished Chinese plane. I am sure it can be done, but you can't convince me any time soon. If critical repair parts start coming out of China, look me up because I will sell N1051K. 

 

Read the melamine stories in pet food and milk powder. This was not shoddy workmanship or mistakes but knowingly adulterated food, tainted to falsify tests that establish protein levels and therefore establish the $$ value. Menu Foods, a  USA company was destroyed by the pet food recall. there were more than 100 million cans of tainted pet food recalled. 

 

http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/safetyhealth/RecallsWithdrawals/ucm129932.htm

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-09-11-tainted-formula_N.htm

 

 

My house was drywalled AFTER it the material was known to be tainted. What could have been recalled at $5000 loss was let to be installed resulting in my situation (PS every sheet has ASTM report!). Plain and simple truth disclosed in discovery. 

 

The difference between now and the industrial revolution is that we (should) know better now. These incidents were not an accident. And were not isolated incidences, it is systemic. The reason things are cheaper in China is because they don't have a much regulations and oversite in most industries. 

 

 Then you have the other side of the coin, cheap labor at a cost:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/09/12/apples-new-foxconn-embarrassment/

 

 

To China's credit, a few were held accountable on the baby formula (I think some put to death by firing squad, really). But I'll let someone else take the learning curve on airplane refurbishment. If there is ever a China Mooney Company, and I ever buy another Mooney – my first question will be similar to that I asked when I was looking for a replacement home. I'll need proof that no China made components were used in critical systems or I will look further. 

[flyboy0681]

Buying an engine or parts made in China scares me greatly.  Imagine an engine full of connecting rods that skipped heat treat, or cylinders cast with the sub-standard aluminum.  No thanks!  The FAA will NEVER have enough oversight to sufficiently guarantee any quality.  Heck, they don't even do a great job over here with that task.

 

 

 

If planes started falling out of the sky en-masse and the problems were linked to cheap Chinese parts, I'm confident the FAA would intervene very quickly.

[Marauder]

I have seen some great factories in China and some that just looked great. Haven't been to the Ford factory, but I suspect it is amazing. But I have been to enough small to medium size factories over the last 13 years to know that things are not always as they seem. I have also had enough quality problems to pull out of China all together. I know enough that I don't want a Chinese made engine or prop on my plane and sure as heck won't fly in a refurbished Chinese plane. I am sure it can be done, but you can't convince me any time soon. If critical repair parts start coming out of China, look me up because I will sell N1051K. Read the melamine stories in pet food and milk powder. This was not shoddy workmanship or mistakes but knowingly adulterated food, tainted to falsify tests that establish protein levels and therefore establish the $$ value. Menu Foods, a USA company was destroyed by the pet food recall. there were more than 100 million cans of tainted pet food recalled. http://www.fda.gov/animalveterinary/safetyhealth/RecallsWithdrawals/ucm129932.htm http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-09-11-tainted-formula_N.htm My house was drywalled AFTER it the material was known to be tainted. What could have been recalled at $5000 loss was let to be installed resulting in my situation (PS every sheet has ASTM report!). Plain and simple truth disclosed in discovery. The difference between now and the industrial revolution is that we (should) know better now. These incidents were not an accident. And were not isolated incidences, it is systemic. The reason things are cheaper in China is because they don't have a much regulations and oversite in most industries. Then you have the other side of the coin, cheap labor at a cost: http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/09/12/apples-new-foxconn-embarrassment/ To China's credit, a few were held accountable on the baby formula (I think some put to death by firing squad, really). But I'll let someone else take the learning curve on airplane refurbishment. If there is ever a China Mooney Company, and I ever buy another Mooney – my first question will be similar to that I asked when I was looking for a replacement home. I'll need proof that no China made components were used in critical systems or I will look further.

The head of the FDA equivalent was executed...

[PMcClure]

If planes started falling out of the sky en-masse and the problems were linked to cheap Chinese parts, I'm confident the FAA would intervene very quickly.

You go first!!