What's the closest you've come to landing gear up?

[Hank]

In addition to verbally saying "gear is down", I would suggest one additional thing to say...  

 

I point at the gear handle & the illuminated "gear down" light while saying aloud, "gear is down ..." then I point at the green donut on the floor and continue with "and locked".  I do this technique every single time I do the GUMPs check.

 

 

I don't point at the switch, I give it a little pat like it's a friendly dog while admiring the little green light. On final, I pat the switch again and check the floor indicator. If I have passengers other than my frequent-flying-companion wife, I tell them that the gear is down and explain the 'thump' they just felt.

[BigTex]

In addition to verbally saying "gear is down", I would suggest one additional thing to say... I point at the gear handle & the illuminated "gear down" light while saying aloud, "gear is down ..." then I point at the green donut on the floor and continue with "and locked". I do this technique every single time I do the GUMPs check. I don't point at the switch, I give it a little pat like it's a friendly dog while admiring the little green light. On final, I pat the switch again and check the floor indicator. If I have passengers other than my frequent-flying-companion wife, I tell them that the gear is down and explain the 'thump' they just felt.

Some pat on switches... Others yank on Johnson Bars...

[midlifeflyer]

I don't want to offend anyone here, but in my opinion, there is no reason to ever forget the gear. 

 

I don't see why anyone would be offended by an absolutely accurate statement like this. Maybe with one change: there is no good reason to ever forget the gear.

[carusoam]

Fortunately, all people are different.

Some are more challenged than others.

Some will be more challenged by distractions in different ways than others.

Some people only fly LOP and others ROP.

Welcome aboard, JonWayne, Welcome aboard...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

Some pat on switches... Others yank on Johnson Bars...

There's a t-shirt just dying to come out of this!

[Jsavage3]

Point, pat, grab, yank...it's all good...

 

Why do I point?  A couple of years ago, the company I fly for (business jets with several thousand pilots and will remain nameless here) was trying to deal with a larger than acceptable number of altitude deviations due to inaccurately set altitude selectors from the rank-n-file.  Thru the use of so-called 'big name' studies, industry standards, etc they determined that a Crew who physically points at the altitude selector while verbally stating "set" and then "seen" from the other crewmember would reduce the chances of setting it incorrectly.  I can tell you that when we were told to start doing this "standard operating procedure" we thought it was ridiculous; however, the results have been fewer altitude deviations.  It works for me as the more things I can keep operationally the same the better and I'm only sharing this in the hope that someone might find it beneficial and/or cause them to come up with something that works better for them when it comes to ensuring the gear is down...

[jetdriven]

del

[midlifeflyer]

Point, pat, grab, yank...it's all good...

 

Why do I point?  A couple of years ago, the company I fly for (business jets with several thousand pilots and will remain nameless here) was trying to deal with a larger than acceptable number of altitude deviations due to inaccurately set altitude selectors from the rank-n-file.  Thru the use of so-called 'big name' studies, industry standards, etc they determined that a Crew who physically points at the altitude selector while verbally stating "set" and then "seen" from the other crewmember would reduce the chances of setting it incorrectly.  I can tell you that when we were told to start doing this "standard operating procedure" we thought it was ridiculous; however, the results have been fewer altitude deviations.  It works for me as the more things I can keep operationally the same the better and I'm only sharing this in the hope that someone might find it beneficial and/or cause them to come up with something that works better for them when it comes to ensuring the gear is down...

 

Great post that describes two different but complementary things: focus and SOP.

 

Doing a call-out is a form of focusing our attention on a specific task, which makes it more likely the task will be done and our attention won't be diverted.  Pilots who do not let go of the gear handle (manual or machine) until confirming the gear is down and locked are using another form of the same principle.

 

SOPs pretty much speak for themselves.   SOPs become habits and habits are hard to break and not as subject to distraction. In an IMC emergency, we broke out of the clouds above pattern altitude near an airport and all I really wanted to do was land. Without even consciously realizing it, I had put down the gear at exactly the same point on a visual approach I always do. 

[Awful_Charlie]

I was converting to type.  I'd had an hour with an instructor, and done the normal circuits, and has insisted on a full stall so was familiar with the stall warner.  When I got back home (with new shiny Mooney!) after a few days wenn out to do some 'unusual' stuff, eg glide approaches, steep turns, just to go and get more used to it. Doing a few circuits, the altitude alerter went off (similar to the stall warner), so I noted this and continued, and bumped the altitude select down to ground level to shut it up.  Next approach, another glide, and when the bleeper went off, just took it to be the altitude alert.  Nailed the glide, in the flare, but running out of runway, so went around - guess why it floated for so long!

 

Would have been a very red-face if I'd pushed the speed brakes out to try and make the landing!  One advantage of doing this on a relatively short field (3000') was that it had to be accurate, but in retrospect I should have experienced the gear warning sound when doing the checkout, or certainly before going off to do more circuits on my own.

[fantom]

I don't see why anyone would be offended by an absolutely accurate statement like this. Maybe with one change: there is no good reason to ever forget the gear.

 Exactly......nice to see some hope to never have a brain fart.

 

 jonwayne.....not to be offensive, but how much flying experience have you had?

[flyboy]

I took off from an airport about 20 miles from where I hanger my Mooney. It was a nice day, just playing around by myself. Winds were dead calm, 5000 feet of pavement. Rotation and liftoff were normal. At about 20 feet of altitude I spot a twin on about a 2 mile final, coming straight at me! I made a left turn to get the heck out of there. Climbed to 3000 feet, pulled the power WAY back and leveled off. Flew 10 miles or so to a friends house to wave hello. I then flew back towards home base, some 30 miles. Entered left downwind. Abeam the numbers I reached for the Johnson bar and changed its position. Said to myself, "self, ....that did not seem right" Realized that I had just raised the gear that had been down for the last forty miles. Put the gear down and landed. That is as close as I have come. Lots of things combined here that stacked up and could have caused disaster.

 

I once saw a you tube video where just before the edge of the runway there were 4 large white letters G E A R to remind us.

If it were up to me this would be required at every airport, every runway.

 

Something I started many years ago when I was based at a field with a full time ATC tower was to combine my checks with the radio work. It would go like this.

 

Tower: "Puddle jumper 123, runway 5 cleared to land, winds 360 at 18.

Me: "3 in the green, pressure and brakes, clear to land, puddle jumper 123" 

 

By saying "3 in the green" I reminded myself to check the gear.

By saying "pressure" I reminded myself to check hyd. pressure

By saying "brakes" I reminded myself to pick up my feet and tap the brakes to make sure they felt normal.

 

after that hand stays on the throttle until turning off the runway. ATC never questioned it, and it only takes about one second of radio time. No reason that one could not use this saying at non controlled fields as well.

[Jonwayne79]

 Exactly......nice to see some hope to never have a brain fart.

 

 jonwayne.....not to be offensive, but how much flying experience have you had?

Hi fantom.  I'm not offended.  I'm by no means a veteran to flying.  I have just over 200 hours (including 600+ landings), most of which are in a 201.  I know there are a lot of guys here with thousands or even tens of thousands of hours.  Like I said, I don't want to offend anybody.  I know a lot of you have a lot more experience than me.  My basic point was that a pilot needs to develop a system that he/she uses every time they land as to not forget anything, especially the gear.  Do I make mistakes? Yes!  We all do.  I just believe that forgetting the gear can be prevented with the right steps.  I don't want any of us to expect to gear up our planes. 

I know I'm new here and none of you know me...so a little about myself:

Like I said, I have just over 200 hours single engine land.

Graduate of Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University with a Bachelor's in Aeronautics and a minor in Aviation Safety.

I'm currently working on my instrument ticket.

[fantom]

Thanks jon, and good luck in your flying career. If you ever discover a "system to insure one never forgets anything" you'll make billions.

[Earl]

So far knock on my wooden head I haven't even come close to a gear up.  Like weather and other stupid pilot tricks I absolutely believe it could happen to me.  I do a gear down check three times on every approach.  One when I put the gear down by looking at the light on the annunciator panel and the floor indicator.  Second one is when I put in my final notch of flaps and third one is when I am on short final when I check my floor indicator again.  And I always say out loud, gear down, when I confirm.  By doing this three times it will hopefully lessen the chances that I am so distracted on three separate occasions that I forget to put the gear down.  If I forget the first check I will hopefully catch myself with the other two.  

 

Agree totally that there is no good reason to land gear up but plenty of very qualified, experienced pilots have done so proving to me that to think it can't happen to me is to invite disaster.

[carusoam]

We all come close every time we fly...

Except for the guy with the unconverted M20D...

One distracted moment away from having a bad day.

But that's the acceptable risk you may take to fly the fasted, factory built, normally aspirated, four seat airplane!

Gumps, gumps, gumps, green(I only have one light),

-a-

[Jonwayne79]

Thanks jon, and good luck in your flying career. If you ever discover a "system to insure one never forgets anything" you'll make billions.

Thanks!

[jwilkins]

After watching a UTube video of a guy landing gear up with the gear warning horn blaring away, I had a voice alert added for gear and stall warning.

 

It's expensive, but much less expensive than the deductible and increased insurance.

 

Jim

[Matt Michael]

I'm curious about who takes credit, and responsibility, for a gear up when there is a CFI on board conducting training?

[flyboy]

^{The CFI takes the credit.}

[fantom]

The CFI takes the credit.

I believe that even if the CFI isn't working at the time, they get the 'credit'.

[Bob_Belville]

Both in the case of a Lance being flown by a very experienced owner with my CFI friend in the right seat. Plus the mechanic how had disabled an auto gear feature that was a known problem of some kind. 

[Matt Michael]

So why is lacee-lamphere (3rd poster) suffering shame humiliation embarrassment and cost if there was a seasoned high time Mooney instructor on board at the time of his incident?

[jetdriven]

I would say Mr. Lamphere isn't suffering shame, humiliation, or embarrassment,  I talked to him the day it happened. He has been very forthcoming about the circumstances and so has his instructor.  in my opinion a little too humble and self-depreciating. Everything was on the level during the training flight, but a high workload came to grief.  Had his engine actually been on fire and he landed gear up we would all have congratulated him for living through it gear up or not, it all burns to the ground anyway.  Since it is a training scenario, there are subtle differences and requirements.  Best glide demands gear up. Runway landing demands wheels down. There is a conflict there. And no clear break between simulated emergency and normal ops.   Hence my earlier statement about not continuing a training scenario forced landing to a real landing.  I'm not trying to be holier than thou, because I drink, curse and swear too much among other character flaws,  but I have had 5 or 6 friends, good pilots all, land wheels up at the conclusion of a simulated emergency.  At some point you have to recognize its the situation, not the pilot.

[RocketAviator]

So why is lacee-lamphere (3rd poster) suffering shame humiliation embarrassment and cost if there was a seasoned high time Mooney instructor on board at the time of his incident?

Matt,

While I appreciate Byron thoughts I have, do and SHOULD suffer shame, humiliation & I DID (along with my insurance company) suffer the COST.... & while I surely don't like it that is Ok.  I think that too often many don't take responsibility for their actions or inactions as they should, and that is a much bigger problem to all of us.  Byron and several other very good CFI's along with many Mooney Pilots with years and significant number of hours of experience were there at the training with me and ALL were very kind to me, much better than I deserved.  To tell the truth after the incident I so wanted just to go back to the Hotel and hide but decided I needed to complete the remaining class room training activities and get as much as I could out of the opportunity, heck I was already there and no airplane to get home in!  There are always a few folks that are should we say less than understanding and those like me with "that will never happen to me I'm not that bad or stupid of a pilot attitude", a little humble pie may be just what is needed.   I still believe the CFI is a good man and we both made mistakes.  The CFI was on duty and was paid if I understand it correctly and I was at least one of the PIC if that makes sense!   Notice the AND not the but!  If you or anyone else learn anything from this then it will have some value!  Thanks again for your thoughts but a little shame, humiliation & embarrassment can be a benefit if we let it or worse yet NO benefit if we don't accept it, now that would be a true waste!

 

Fly Safe

Rocket On...

[mike_elliott]

I believe that even if the CFI isn't working at the time, they get the 'credit'.

 

They get credit for pilot foo pah's even when they are not in the plane. "you should have taught Mr Ihatemylife not to auger it in to the rocks 5 years ago when you instructed him...verdict Mrs plaintiff"

A reason I request a waiver of subrogation and to be named addnl insured from my students insurance co. They don't like providing them, as it takes away their "insurance" policy to reclaim cash, but will at no cost typically for a specialized instructor. Non owned aircraft policies are a very expensive cost to pass on to a student and don't cover all the bases the "system" has dreamed up to protect the insurance companies

I am sure glad my name is not in this guys logs..(as previously posted here recently)

 http://dms.ntsb.gov/public%2F54500-54999%2F54637%2F523240.pdf