Ashamed of Mooneyspace (Poll)

[201er]

Lately there has been a lot of fighting and personal attacks going around here. More locked topics in the last few weeks than in all the time I've been on the board. Let's settle this in a democratic way. If the community votes enough, then be a man and take it off the board.

[201er]

Personally I think it's shameful for someone to read out board for the first time and see some of this going on. Not only is it a bad image for Mooneyspace but Mooneys in general. I don't want newcomers to get an impression like this http://mooneyspace.com/topic/9339-gulfstream-girl-how-many/page-3#entry111510

[rbridges]

there's a fine line between disagreement and argument.  At a certain point, it needs to go to PMs.

[Piloto]

I vote for red Mooneys.

[mooneygirl]

I guess that I haven't seen what you are talking about until I followed the link.  Mitch and I are just back from OSH and I personally spoke to three people that were seriously considering other makes of aircraft until they came to the Mooney forum, and Mooney booth.

I had referred all three to Mooneyspace as a great place to ask questions and perhaps hook up with someone for a demo flight.

 

I would hope that we can all support one another, and our brand.  If you ask any two Mooney pilots their opinion on something I am sure you will get four opinions.  But let's keep it focused on the positive aspects of flying the Mooney and also to welcome those into our Mooney-family.

 

Jolie

[1964-M20E]

We have a lot of very passionate people on the site.  I think the thing we all need to realize the most is that in many of the topics there are many right answers and which one is right depends on who talking at that moment.  I try to think about what I am posing and try not to intentionally get someone else’s blood pressure up but I ‘m sure I have done that as some point.  It is hard when you are passionate or emotionally involved in a topic to disengage and think rationally but we need to try.

 

As with anything you have fact, fiction, interpretation  and opinion.  Facts are generally easy to ascertain as is fiction.  I think our issues mainly revolve around interpretation and opinion just like any other arena of politics, hobby or business.

 

Maybe we need to treat this more like we are talking with our boss rather than barking orders to our children.  In some case some of you are the boss so for you imagine you are talking to your customers.

 

Of course sometimes the arguments are quite entertaining as least for a while then I tune out and read another post.

[scottfromiowa]

Please everyone send me a PM explaining how I should address the issue and error of my ways. I welcome any and all constructive feedback. For the record, I voted to take it outside...

Interesting to see the responses of many on there. Very interesting.

[Marauder]

I'm lost for words when I read those posts. Life is too short... Enjoy the ride and those that share the ride with you, ignore the rest. We are family and like all families, conflicts will come up -- but at the end of the day, we're still family. Just remember that the real enemies are the ones who have their tails on backwards -- we all know our's are on right.

[KSMooniac]

There was a lot of crap on that thread.  However, it almost always takes at least two posters to turn into a really ugly burning pile of crap.  IMO it is better to just not participate in piling on but some folks can't resist.  Mixing politics into the forum in a respectful fashion is hard enough, even when they are relevant, but the personal excrement-flinging has no place ever on here.  We've done great over 5 years of self-moderation and I'd hate to see that great record fall by the wayside...

[Piloto]

What's wrong with the Hooters Girls? Better than the classic Mooney Pilot.

[Jeff_S]

I voted to stir the pot! Although I guess it's true that people should know how to stir it just to the point of boiling and NOT boiling over. I find it easy to bypass those threads where certain forum members go after each other, if I choose to, but then again sometimes a little soap opera is good for the soul.

 

I have yet to belong to a forum where there isn't at least a certain amount of trash talking. At least here most people use their real names and don't hide behind their avatars. That gives it a certain legitimacy. But the relative anonymity of any forum will always allow people to go past their regular inhibitions. I would just ask that if you are gonig to start calling people names, please make it imaginative so we can get some entertainment value out of it.

[Joe Zuffoletto]

Despite the occasional "steaming pile" thread on MooneySpace, this place is downright civilized compared to Pilots of America, which attracts far more freaks per capita, IMHO.

[aaronk25]

I think there should be a 3rd option to vote as there is some good entertainment value, however when it gets to hurting feelings or turning away prospective mooney drivers its time to call it quits.

[chrisk]

I enjoy seeing a passionate argument on technical issues. For me it crosses the line when the personal insults start flying, or when the technical argument becomes  a mantra.

[RJBrown]

Recount the GG thread.

Page 1 and half of 2 were, to quote "creepy and sexist"

Without explanation 2 seemingly unrelated links were posted by Byron.

I for one did not get the connection.

Turns out it was not unrelated, bit of confusion, Then clarity, thanks Airplane Flyer. This GG is connected to and aparrently a big part of some rich guys perversion. 

Once Scott understood what she was he said "If she is tied in with that then YES...HELL YES it is disgusting and she is NO "Role Model".

 Post 38 got a rude comment from Byron. First of the thread. Then Scott objected without being rude but clarifying his statements.

Becca took her PC/feminist and attacked Hooters girls and questioned the connection between GG and J Epstein(That her husband had pointed out).

Post 45 Scott reminded us of Beccas feminist agenda (often pushed and clear to all) and obviously offended her husband who then got rude and nasty.

If Becca and Byron would quit being both offensive and thin skinned this would not have happened. Scott used humor where Becca and Byron JUST GOT NASTY.

 It is very common when a discussion is going nowhere some get personal. Byron got personal, shouldnt have. If he and his wife took a hike IMHO Mooney space would more harmonious but less fun.

[alex]

Recount the GG thread.

Page 1 and half of 2 were, to quote "creepy and sexist"

Without explanation 2 seemingly unrelated links were posted by Byron.

I for one did not get the connection.

Turns out it was not unrelated, bit of confusion, Then clarity, thanks Airplane Flyer. This GG is connected to and aparrently a big part of some rich guys perversion. 

Once Scott understood what she was he said "If she is tied in with that then YES...HELL YES it is disgusting and she is NO "Role Model".

 Post 38 got a rude comment from Byron. First of the thread. Then Scott objected without being rude but clarifying his statements.

Becca took her PC/feminist and attacked Hooters girls and questioned the connection between GG and J Epstein(That her husband had pointed out).

Post 45 Scott reminded us of Beccas feminist agenda (often pushed and clear to all) and obviously offended her husband who then got rude and nasty.

If Becca and Byron would quit being both offensive and thin skinned this would not have happened. Scott used humor where Becca and Byron JUST GOT NASTY.

 It is very common when a discussion is going nowhere some get personal. Byron got personal, shouldnt have. If he and his wife took a hike IMHO Mooney space would more harmonious but less fun.

 

AMEN!

[Becca]

Recount the GG thread.

Page 1 and half of 2 were, to quote "creepy and sexist"

Without explanation 2 seemingly unrelated links were posted by Byron.

I for one did not get the connection.

Turns out it was not unrelated, bit of confusion, Then clarity, thanks Airplane Flyer. This GG is connected to and aparrently a big part of some rich guys perversion. 

Once Scott understood what she was he said "If she is tied in with that then YES...HELL YES it is disgusting and she is NO "Role Model".

 Post 38 got a rude comment from Byron. First of the thread. Then Scott objected without being rude but clarifying his statements.

Becca took her PC/feminist and attacked Hooters girls and questioned the connection between GG and J Epstein(That her husband had pointed out).

Post 45 Scott reminded us of Beccas feminist agenda (often pushed and clear to all) and obviously offended her husband who then got rude and nasty.

If Becca and Byron would quit being both offensive and thin skinned this would not have happened. Scott used humor where Becca and Byron JUST GOT NASTY.

 It is very common when a discussion is going nowhere some get personal. Byron got personal, shouldnt have. If he and his wife took a hike IMHO Mooney space would more harmonious but less fun.

 

The post I made in question that is apparently not harmonious is here:

 

Becca:

 

I don't think being a sexy pilot is a good "role model" for young girls wanting to fly or young girls in general.  As if girls don't have enough body image problems to pile another one on them - your appearance should not define your worth.   Gulfstream Girl seems to have mostly inspired the men with the creep factor already posting on this board and flying airplanes, basically she has the PR appeal of a Hooters waitress not the appeal of Amelia Earhart...  There's PR appeal, but if you think its the appeal of inspiring more women to fly, that's laughable.  However, Gulfstream Girl's name is Nadia Marcinko, and the Epstein enabler is Nadia Marcinkova. 

 

 

So please, deconstruct for me, what part of this post was rude, began a fight with anyone, or did anything besides state my honest opinion that is not a good thing to use sex appeal to inspire young women?  This is apparently where: "Becca took her PC/feminist and attacked Hooters girls .."  Please explain?   Recall I posted this following two pages of innuendo about GG's sex appeal which apparently didn't merit any thoughts on rudeness, etc.  I didn't realize feminism - or just the honest opinion of someone who was actually a woman - is out of place in a discussion on how to inspire women to fly, my mistake.  I guess feminism is out of place in a thread of a bunch of male pilots making dirty jokes about a hot woman pilot under the heading of "inspiring new pilots".

 

The reply I got to my post was:

 

ScottFromIowa: "I guess you have to be butt-ugly and manly to be a rocket scientist as a women?"

 

In other words, this was: Post 45 Scott reminded us of Beccas feminist agenda (often pushed and clear to all) and obviously offended her husband who then got rude and nasty.) and Scott used humor.  What's the joke in this that I missed?  Hahahaa, this was just something funny to defuse the situation?  I know I always get a good chuckle when someone calls me butt-ugly and manly.  It is right that such comments obviously offended my husband.  If someone said these things about your wife, mother, or daughter, would they offend you?

 

In order to stay civil, I did not reply to this or any of the later posts on the GG thread until at the very end, when someone called me out for my behavior, when I made a short post to remind that person they were confusing me with Byron because our icons have the same tail number.  Apparently this second post or my lack of posting can be described as: Becca  JUST GOT NASTY.  In case you are wondering, here's how "nasty" I got in my second of two total posts on the thread:

 

Becca:

 

The only post I made was that I don't think Gulfstream Girl is a good role model for women and questioning whether the two Nadia's are the same.  You can see my one prior post made on this thread here: http://mooneyspace.c...-many/?p=111453

I didn't even address Scott at all, in fact, I make it my business not to.  My husband, who is not me, did choose to make some posts.  Please do not attribute Byron's posts to me just because our little airplane icons have the same tail number.

 

Yet somehow I am being dragged into this discussion on civility.   Or is this one of those cases of "your skirt is too short so you deserve it"?   Somehow my even being involved on a thread created misbehavior?

 

I certainly silently took the attack this time on the GG thread.  But I won't sit silently here and be blamed for whatever machismo match went on over there.  My husband didn't sit silently, I am sure his reaction, actually what I believe was an overreaction, was to these continuous attacks on me, I try to avoid devoting an ounce of outrage to jerks on the internet as a general rule. 

 

But in answer to the original question, I think that we could use more active moderation and the banning of users or even a temporary time out when these things bust open.  Or at minimum, some more self-policing than we are doing now.  In the meantime, I will add this to one additional pilot group I will caution my few female pilot friends to exercise extreme caution before involving themselves in.

[gregwatts]

I say......ROP!

[Bob_Belville]

I did not vote... I did not follow that thread... but crude and rude do not belong here, IMO. Those in charge should feel free to remove anything they would not want their daughter seeing/reading. 

[201er]

[rbridges]

Despite the occasional "steaming pile" thread on MooneySpace, this place is downright civilized compared to Pilots of America, which attracts far more freaks per capita, IMHO.

 

 

oh yeah, definitely some pissing contests there.  Good place, but you kinda have to maneuver around the egos and whack jobs.

[Super Dave]

I'm in the cut it out camp. If you're craving drama, go watch Jerry Springer. The personal attacks and offensive comments are bound to deter some from participating on Mooneyspace, and we all suffer for that.

[jetdriven]

Lets clear the air here.  its not random people bashing on Mooneyspace. Its 3 players at work here, constantly attacking my wife and I.

Scott Thompson  "Scottfromiowa"

John Pleisse "N352H"

and to a much lesser extent, RJ Brown

 

I always liked this board for the incredible wealth of knowledge and the sharing of that information to make owning, flying, and enjoying our Mooneys better. To that extent I have solicited information and have given as much as I know, even going as far as spending a few hours a week researching topics I don't know as well in order to help a fellow pilot out. I have posted hundreds of times with full page articles of information, photos, and information that I have ran into during my 2 years and 600 hours of shop time working on Mooneys.

 

That's what I am here for.  Now, some people come out from behind their anonymous screen names only to ridicule, harass, or attack others. There is no useful or information relevant to Mooney aircraft offered.  Most of it comes from the three parties above, one of which was banned for a time for this behavior. 

 

I find offers to street fight at Oshkosh, PM's calling and insuniating names I can't reprint here, making fun of people's jobs, hyphenated last names, gender, etc as unacceptable behavior. That's precisely why I joined Beechtalk, everyone uses their real name, and the other behavior will result in getting banned from the site. For the most part, the discussion is civil and there is a wealth of information to be shared.

 

Now occasionally I fall off the wagon, and after 3 or 4 jabs and offers to fight from Scott, I finally snapped. For that I apologize, but I am really getting tired of the constant drumbeat of negative and insulting posts directed at me from these 3. 

 

  Perhaps if they start posting ANY useful information to the rest of us Mooney owners that contribute to the site, we can all move on. But for now all I see from them is one insult after another, and they contribute basically nothing of value to the site.  Search all of our post history and see for yourself. 

[RJBrown]

I don't think being a sexy pilot is a good "role model" for young girls wanting to fly or young girls in general. As if girls don't have enough body image problems to pile another one on them - your appearance should not define your worth. Gulfstream Girl seems to have mostly inspired the men with the creep factor already posting on this board and flying airplanes, basically she has the PR appeal of a Hooters waitress not the appeal of Amelia Earhart... There's PR appeal, but if you think its the appeal of inspiring more women to fly, that's laughable. However, Gulfstream Girl's name is Nadia Marcinko, and the Epstein enabler is Nadia Marcinkova.

 

I had no objection to this post and agree with it as a whole. It does show your knee jerk political side, but I accept your political opinions  as part of you.

 

 Scott's post:

"I guess you have to be butt-ugly and manly to be a rocket scientist as a women?"

 

Pokes fun at the feminists inability to not discriminate against attractive women. Through "humor" reminds YOU not to discriminate against other women.

 It in no way called you fat or unatractive that is your thin skin reaction.

 

You were not attacked You only thought you were. You took offence where none was intended. You then let/encouraged your husband to over react to slights real or imagined. You as a couple ARE to easily offended and once offended WAY TO NASTY.

 

You live life looking to be offended, lighten up.

[aviatoreb]

I say......ROP!

 

But LOP saves fuel and has lower peak pressures inside your cylinders.