Taking Mooney for a Spin (poll)

[201er]

Since we've been talking a lot about stalls/spins in another topic, I'm curious how many of you guys have actually witnessed a spin in a Mooney and how/why it happened. What have you learned?

 

Anyone actually witnessed an inadvertent spin in normal flight? Or are most spins (that people come back to talk about) the direct result of stall practice?

[carusoam]

No frick.... May be a little too strong, but I don't care to witness one either...

Best regards,

-a-

[Hank]

I've read Bob Kromer's advice about spin recovery, and someone's article (Don Kaye?) about inadvertent spins in Mooneys.

"No fricken way" is more politely than I would most likely reply to a serious discussion about spinning a Mooney.

P.S.--I did stall recovery during transition training, BFR's, Instrument training and MAPA PPPs. Flying at MCA with the stall horn buzzing is fine, turning this way and that. I hear it on every landing. You gotta stay proficient. But my Owner's Manual says NOT APPROVED FOR SPINS for a reason.

[WardHolbrook]

If it's prohibited in the POH, it's done for a very good reason. There's no way I go against the flight manual, I don't feel like being a test pilot.

[201er]

If it's prohibited in the POH, it's done for a very good reason. There's no way I go against the flight manual, I don't feel like being a test pilot.

Not trying to be a smartass; what specifically is that very good reason?

[jetdriven]

I have done stalls in several different Mooneys and its great education. A particularly good article from Don Kaye points out some key things, like plenty of altitude (6-7K), and have the instructor (preferably a Mooney instructor) do the first few to feel the plane out. Some airplanes with wing repairs done might surprise you. After that, stall all you want, but beware the secondary stall, which can get ugly real quick.  At any rate, have the PARE recovery technique spring loaded in case of an incipient spin so you have a functioning pilot at the controls if it goes over on you. 

[gregwatts]

I had a student put a 201 Turbo Bullet into a spin. It was abrubt...if not violent..........lost almost 2000 feet in 2 turns and I hope to never have to go through that again! The Mooney does not recover like a Cessna either!

 

 

 

 

IIRC....I shat my pants, too!

[mikefox]

I had a student mis-handle a power-on stall recovery once, and we started rolling off on the left wing.  This would be the very beginning of the spin entry.  Before we got more than 45 degrees of heading change, I applied full rudder opposite the rotation and brisk forward movement of the yoke, and the aircraft flew out of it.

 

I wouldn't want to see more than that!

[WardHolbrook]

Not trying to be a smartass; what specifically is that very good reason?

Because it doesn't meet the spin recovery criteria.

[bumper]

I inadvertently spun my Mooney during my PPL training doing MCA turns. I posted about it here before. Starting altitude was 3.5K ending altitude - low. Scared the &%$# out of me. Stopped flying the Mooney until I got proper spin training. Keep the ball centered.

 

bumper

[N201MKTurbo]

I do all my stalls to the break and then recover. I've never had it spin. It is a good way to check the rigging of your plane. If the flap up stops are unequal, it will roll over quite violently in a power on stall.

[Hank]

Well, now I can't find that particular statement in my Owner's Manual. It does say "Acrobatic maneuvers, including spins, are not authorized in this aircraft."

 

There is a lengthy section about stalls, and a longer one about spins and recovery. It further states that up to 2000' may be required to recover from a one-turn spin . . . and delaying recovery may lead to a flat spin from which recovery may not be possible.

 

Here is Don Kaye's excellent article:  http://www.donkaye.com/donkaye.com/Inadvertent_Spins_in_a_Mooney.html

 

Happy reading, and if you decide to spin your Mooney, please don't tell me in advance, and no thank you, I don't want to watch.

[wiseng]

Today during my  flight review I spun da Mooney.  I was doing a power off stall and before I knew it the ariplane entered a spin very qucikly and abruptly. The power was off, gear down and half flaps.  Trust me the picture you see out the front screen is not one I want to see again. We were at '5,500 and made one  rotation and recovered with full right rudder and a very swift  and foreceful full forward yoke inpit.  Looked at the a altimeter and it read 5,000'.  Both the check ride pilot and myself could not believe we only lost '500'.  Needless to say I have a new found respect for 51AM and now know why spins are prohibited in Mooneys. I have had this airplane for 16 years and this was a first and I hope last spin recovery I have to perform in any mooneyt.

[carusoam]

Wow....there is a lot to keep track of during maneuvers....

Any recording devices on the flight?

It would be interesting how an iPad/ skyradar/ CloudAhoy would have recorded the details...

Oscar's video camera on this flight would be a reminder of what to avoid...

A record of the weight balance would be an opportunity to share what quick recovery technique can do in this situation. Only losing 500' in a one turn spin is pretty good, no?

Thanks for sharing and Best regards,

-a-

[wiseng]

On looking back the only thing I can think of I did different was to hold the nose up deeper into the stall than I normally do.  Whiich I will not be doing any time soon.  Go figure.  Ball centered all that.  Needless to say I got checked off for another two years.  Its one thing to spin an airplane intentionally which I have done in a lot of Cessna's another to have it just happen...

[PMcClure]

I had a similar experience to wiseng in my F model. I was practicing power on stalls and when it broke, it broke hard left and nearly inverted. Full opposite rudder and forceful full forward on the yoke plus about 1000' off the altimeter fixed the problem. I was scared stiff. Not sure if the rigging was out or I wasn't centered. But I won't be doing that maneuver anymore. Sat. in my VFR flight review I told the instructor on the ground I would do anything he asked except power on stalls or spins. He pushed a little and I told him I would find another instructor, period. He called me a prick PIC and let it go. I don't see a good reason to take that chance. Cessna's or Bo's I have done many times, but not again in a Mooney. 

 

Power off stalls are gentle in my Ovation. With take off flaps she is gentle and easy. With full flaps, it is darn near impossible to get her to break. With full flaps and some power she nearly stands on her tail. 

[Alan Fox]

I was with a stick and rudder type of instructor , Doing a power on stall it broke and it broke hard , left wing over and flipped inverted , all in about 1 second or less , I was terrified , after the first spin , I pulled all the power out , and it still was spinning , I relinquished the controls to the instructor and it took another spin and a half to get it flying again.....we lost over a thousand feet , I will never do a power on , or off stall in a Mooney again.....  I'm sure there there are a bunch of "expert" pilots that say no problem , If you spin one of these you are putting your life and your passengers life in jeapordy....Period end of story......I seriously considered giving up flying that day.....  

[jetdriven]

These airplanes are hand built and some have some interesting stall characteristics. Ball centered is a requirement at any rate.  But in normal operation I treat it like a jet. Never stall the airplane during flight.

[201er]

But in normal operation I treat it like a jet. Never stall the airplane during flight.

Plenty of jet pilots who've forgotten to follow that rule...

[jetdriven]

They only forget it once!

[marks]

I once had a BFR with an instructor who had very little Mooney time.  He was very experienced otherwise and was so sure that he knew what he was doing that he encouraged me to do a full power-on stall and assured me that if the airplane got out of my control that he would simply take over and all would be well.  -  I didn't buy it.  I told him that he may be right, but if I was "out of control" then it would be time to give up flying, alive or dead.  Once the airplane acts differently than the pilot or instructor expects, training becomes meaningless.  Of course good pilots can recover, but sometimes good pilots don't.  Since most all stall/spin fatal accidents take place during low altitude manueavers where recovery is impossible, why practice spin entry at higher altitude?  Oh I forgot, some pilots try spin entry at 7,000 ft and the spin goes flat, so let's practice recovery up high.  (stupid)  My theory is simple, "Lead us not, into temptation".  No fricken way.

[BigTex]

I once had a BFR with an instructor who had very little Mooney time.  He was very experienced otherwise and was so sure that he knew what he was doing that he encouraged me to do a full power-on stall and assured me that if the airplane got out of my control that he would simply take over and all would be well.  -  I didn't buy it.  I told him that he may be right, but if I was "out of control" then it would be time to give up flying, alive or dead.  Once the airplane acts differently than the pilot or instructor expects, training becomes meaningless.  Of course good pilots can recover, but sometimes good pilots don't.  Since most all stall/spin fatal accidents take place during low altitude manueavers where recovery is impossible, why practice spin entry at higher altitude?  Oh I forgot, some pilots try spin entry at 7,000 ft and the spin goes flat, so let's practice recovery up high.  (stupid)  My theory is simple, "Lead us not, into temptation".  No fricken way.

 

Mark - Power on stalls in a Mooney is no big deal.  It requires more attention than a Cessna 172 but nothing to fear.  If you're not comfortable performing stalls of all flavors, I'd highly suggest you attend a Mooney PPP.  It's provides invaluable training.  They'll provide training throughout the entire flight envelope.  Highly recommend it.

[Alan Fox]

Mark - Power on stalls in a Mooney is no big deal.  It requires more attention than a Cessna 172 but nothing to fear.  If you're not comfortable performing stalls of all flavors, I'd highly suggest you attend a Mooney PPP.  It's provides invaluable training.  They'll provide training throughout the entire flight envelope.  Highly recommend it.

Famous last words....When the Jet pilot "Byron" tells you not to approach spins , and everybody that has inadvertently had the unfortunate experience to be in one tell you how bad it is , and the manufacturer of the aircraft tells you not to..   I think you should listen to big Tex who says power on stalls are no big deal........ 

[PTK]

These airplanes are hand built and some have some interesting stall characteristics. Ball centered is a requirement at any rate. But in normal operation I treat it like a jet. Never stall the airplane during flight.

That explains it!

Now I know why ATC refers to me as "MooneyJet" on occasion. I couldn't figure out why!

J stands for jet! Thanks Byron!

[Freight Dog]

Spins…. only done them in a glider and C-152 during primary training - PERIOD. Not doing them intentionally in the Mooney… PERIOD. If I feel like spinning something, I'll go fly a glider or join Vans Air Force.  

 

Having said that… I will always do stalls, steep turns and MCA flight as part of my proficiency training. When I bought my plane, as part of my insurance checkout, the CFI had me let the wing drop when doing stalls. He wanted to show me that Mooneys can get feisty and one needs to be prompt on the pedals and corrections. Yes, it'll definitely grab your attention when it breaks. However, the plane will talk to you long before the wing drops and that's what you really want to pay attention to.