Ovation/Eagle Purchase and Weight Reduction

[Ragsf15e]

Hello Ovation (and Eagle) owners! I’ve PM’d with a few of you so I know this is possible, but I’m looking to buy an Ovation or Eagle with at least 1050lbs UL.  
If I find one close, how much weight do you think I could save by removing the vacuum and backup vacuum systems with a GI-275 install?  What about old adf, dme, engine gages, etc?  I’ve looked through some of the equipment lists and it doesn’t look like Id really get more than 10-15lbs of savings.  Does anyone have personal experience with serious weight reduction on these?

Thanks for any insight you have!

[NickG]

My Ovation (310HP) has an 1100#UL. w/TKS. All glass, no factory O2 or AC. No Vacuum systems at all.

[M20S Driver]

1118 lb for my Eagle with 310 HP  STC.  Still has vacuum and the back up pump.  No TKS, Air, or O2.  My MTOW is 3368 lb and landing is at 3200lb.  I guess with glass upgrade and vacuum removal it will be close to 1200 lb.

[Bolter]

I removed the just the vacuum system and a single AI as a single step.  This includes front engine drive primary and battery backup and that was a total of 14.79 lb removed and mvoed CG ahead .07 inches.  

The standby pump+motor+frame was 7.4 lb on its own. 

My current UL is 1092 lb. (FIKI version of TKS installed)

Edited December 3 by Bolter
added FIKI info

[Ragsf15e]

@NickG @M20S Driver @Bolter well clearly these “needles” exist in the haystack!  Your airplanes would all be perfect!  Thanks for sharing.  It helps keep me optimistic as I continue to look.  My next new airplane is out there, I just have to find her.

[Schllc]

MT prop saves 27# off the nose, if it’s the old McCauley 3 blade, it may be even more.
It shifts the cg a full inch back. 
With that savings you should be able to pick up 40# plus if you can switch to the earthx batteries and maybe some charlie weights?

[LANCECASPER]

13 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Hello Ovation (and Eagle) owners! I’ve PM’d with a few of you so I know this is possible, but I’m looking to buy an Ovation or Eagle with at least 1050lbs UL.  
If I find one close, how much weight do you think I could save by removing the vacuum and backup vacuum systems with a GI-275 install?  What about old adf, dme, engine gages, etc?  I’ve looked through some of the equipment lists and it doesn’t look like Id really get more than 10-15lbs of savings.  Does anyone have personal experience with serious weight reduction on these?

Thanks for any insight you have!

The Ovation came out in 1994 so you might find an early one that still has an ADF or DME. The Eagle came out in 1999 so very unlikely that you'll find an ADF or DME to remove.

The 1999 - 2004 Ovations and all Eagles had the Moritz engine gauges so if they haven't been replaced they should be discounted in value $10,000 - $12,000, since they all fail eventually.

If they have the King KI-525 HSI,  the weight of the instrument and the remote gyro (KG102A) plus the wiring, etc. should get you 10 pounds. The KI256 Attitude indicator plus the vacuum pumps and plumbing is probably the biggest savings. 

I had a 2000 Ovation where all of this was done, but I guess I didn't save the Weight and Balance. It had Air Conditioning so I believe the useful load was around 1050 after the panel project by the previous owner. 

[Ragsf15e]

7 hours ago, Schllc said:

MT prop saves 27# off the nose, if it’s the old McCauley 3 blade, it may be even more.
It shifts the cg a full inch back. 
With that savings you should be able to pick up 40# plus if you can switch to the earthx batteries and maybe some charlie weights?

Yes, I have been reading some of your and others previous posts about the props for the 310hp stc.  The MT looks like a good bit of weight savings (and money)! Thanks!

[NickG]

W 310 HP STC and TKS. NO Factory O2 (I use portable) or AC.

[Ragsf15e]

3 hours ago, NickG said:

W 310 HP STC and TKS. NO Factory O2 (I use portable) or AC.

That’s awesome!  Let me know when you’re ready to sell it! 

[NickG]

1 hour ago, Ragsf15e said:

That’s awesome!  Let me know when you’re ready to sell it! 

Sadly, you'll be waiting a long time!

[Ed de C.]

I guess my O3 is porky.  My useful load is <cough> 933 lbs.  

TKS, O2 (77 cu ft), G1000/GFC700 (no vacuum) Stormscope, Avidyne traffic, Amsafe belts, Hartzell 3-blade prop.  I don't have my weight/balance in front of me, but I think it came out of the factory heavy and the few add-ons since eroded it further.  

I have no idea how you guys are getting those 1,000+ useful loads with similar equipment.  Should I figure my plane has charlie weights in the tail and if so, roughly how much might they be?

Ed

[Niko182]

If you want useful load you want a 252 or an eagle. Both of those come with some serious gross weight increases that really allow the useful load to shine. When I got my eagle it had 970 pounds of useful load. over the years, I have documented anything that will lower the weight. That means lighter alternator, LED instead of regular lights since you get to lose the power supplies, light weight autopilot, getting a G3X so i can ditch the entire 6 pack, backup cdi, and jpi 900 all for one light weight touchscreen, newer radios, the acclaim type S prop or the MT prop, and for the eagle, the screaming eagle conversion. Doing all of this resulted in about a 245 pound difference between the higher gross weight and the lower empty weight. Right now, I'm at 1216lbs, and will probably gain some weight with the electronic ignition installation, but might hop over to an acclaim prop, and lose another 8 pounds. It takes time, but if you anal about making weight changes and logging them, it's fairly easy.

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, Ed de C. said:

Should I figure my plane has charlie weights in the tail and if so, roughly how much might they be?

In your POH, in Section VI (Weight and Balance), your Equipment List should show you everything available from the factory and which of those items your airplane has.

[NickG]

12 hours ago, Ed de C. said:

I guess my O3 is porky.  My useful load is <cough> 933 lbs.  

TKS, O2 (77 cu ft), G1000/GFC700 (no vacuum) Stormscope, Avidyne traffic, Amsafe belts, Hartzell 3-blade prop.  I don't have my weight/balance in front of me, but I think it came out of the factory heavy and the few add-ons since eroded it further.  

I have no idea how you guys are getting those 1,000+ useful loads with similar equipment.  Should I figure my plane has charlie weights in the tail and if so, roughly how much might they be?

Ed

Mine doesn’t have factory O2 or AC. It does have TKS.

[Niko182]

13 hours ago, Ed de C. said:

I guess my O3 is porky.  My useful load is <cough> 933 lbs.  

TKS, O2 (77 cu ft), G1000/GFC700 (no vacuum) Stormscope, Avidyne traffic, Amsafe belts, Hartzell 3-blade prop.  I don't have my weight/balance in front of me, but I think it came out of the factory heavy and the few add-ons since eroded it further.  

I have no idea how you guys are getting those 1,000+ useful loads with similar equipment.  Should I figure my plane has charlie weights in the tail and if so, roughly how much might they be?

Ed

Not getting them weighed since the pre 2000s usually does the trick.

[Max Clark]

On 12/3/2024 at 9:20 AM, LANCECASPER said:

The Ovation came out in 1994 so you might find an early one that still has an ADF or DME. The Eagle came out in 1999 so very unlikely that you'll find an ADF or DME to remove.

The 1999 - 2004 Ovations and all Eagles had the Moritz engine gauges so if they haven't been replaced they should be discounted in value $10,000 - $12,000, since they all fail eventually.

If they have the King KI-525 HSI,  the weight of the instrument and the remote gyro (KG102A) plus the wiring, etc. should get you 10 pounds. The KI256 Attitude indicator plus the vacuum pumps and plumbing is probably the biggest savings. 

I had a 2000 Ovation where all of this was done, but I guess I didn't save the Weight and Balance. It had Air Conditioning so I believe the useful load was around 1050 after the panel project by the previous owner. 

2003 Ovation Factory O2, no TKS, 3 blade prop, 280 HP = 1007 UL

Removing the vacuum system right now, book says I'll save 26.49 lbs for the vacuum system, and 80.46 lbs of avionics and gauges coming out of the plane.

Don't have calculated weights for what's going back in yet, but I'll post when I do for anyone curious down the road.