N9391M destroyed at KOSH

[druidjaidan]

My plane for the past 6 years was destroyed today. Two ultralights collided on approach and one of the planes came down on top of my plane.

We were on our way back from the seaplane base, had we decided to take the South 40 bus instead of main gate we, and my children, likely would have been at the tent when it happened.

[exM20K]

Very glad to hear you and family escaped injury.  Sorry about your plane.  Any word on the involved pilots?

-dan

[OSUAV8TER]

Glad to hear that you and your family are okay. There will be a new airplane for you soon, if you want.

Any word on the condition of the pilots that collided?

[Jeph357]

https://themessenger.com/news/breaking-fatal-plane-crash-is-oshkosh-marks-second-air-incident-in-the-past-week

[druidjaidan]

The news on the pilots is not good.

The one that didn't land on my money was not survivable. The one that did, I met one of the people first on scene who pulled them from the plane. They were alive at the time.

 

[Brian E.]

34 minutes ago, druidjaidan said:

My plane for the past 6 years was destroyed today. Two ultralights collided on approach and one of the planes came down on top of my plane.

We were on our way back from the seaplane base, had we decided to take the South 40 bus instead of main gate we, and my children, likely would have been at the tent when it happened.

What a tragic accident--sorry about your plane and the logistical challenges that await you.  So thankful you and yours were not injured on the gournd.

[EricJ]

4 minutes ago, druidjaidan said:

The news on the pilots is not good.

The one that didn't land on my money was not survivable. The one that did, I met one of the people first on scene who pulled them from the plane. They were alive at the time.

 

Very sad to hear, and it sounds like it's not the first fatalities this year at Oshkosh, which makes it sadder.   :'(

Very glad to hear you and your family are okay.    Your airplane is replaceable.

 

[OSUAV8TER]

Just now, 1980Mooney said:

With the inflation in GA aircraft prices the last few years, many planes today are underinsured for total loss.  The two (2) Ultralights may have not carried any insurance.  This is a sad situation for all involved.  Before painting a rosy picture, more facts are needed.  

BTW - I am curious to know if attendees can sue the organizers of the EAA Airventure at Oshkosh or do attendees have to sign a waiver to attend?

What's the point in suing EAA? Your insurance company will subrogate and handle it. 

[Fly Boomer]

Just now, 1980Mooney said:

And if you are underinsured you are screwed for no fault of your own.

Hmmmm.  I’m still digesting that.

[Kejidog]

So sorry to hear.  Glad you and your family were safe.  I hope it will not scare your kids from flying going forward.   Nobody expects something like this to happen.  The shock must be tremendous. 

[druidjaidan]

The kids are upset, I'm upset. I don't think it impacts our future flying with them.

We likely will seek out legal advice regardless. At a minimum to ensure we are treated correctly for all incidental losses involved (we had personal electronics and equipment in the plane), and partially because we've already received advice to be mindful of the impact of a claim on our insurance and that we should seek out the other parties insurance.

Regardless of right or wrong I'm not a huge fan of going after eaa for this. I would bet they will never allow the ultralights to fly right over the campsites again and that procedure will get revamped or that section of parking closed.

[Raptor05121]

Sorry to hear! I left this morning and vividly remember looking over at your plane and admiring the colors

[JoshK]

The OP said "had we decided to take the South 40 bus instead of main gate we, and my children, likely would have been at the tent when it happened."
I they had arrived back at their plane a few minutes sooner, would have they only gotten an "I'm sorry" from EAA?  Most people don't carry life insurance on their children.  Their personal medical insurance might not have covered all costs if they survived.  Then there is the loss and suffering.  I am curious to know how liability is handled at any airshow - although this one is more packed, aircraft activity closer to attendees and with attendees actively involved.   
I remember the topic a couple years about the Mooney Missile conversion that upon landing was waived through to taxi into soft/wet ground.  He did not want to but was ordered to by the EAA officials.  His nose gear sunk in and destroyed his prop.  His plane sat at Oshkosh for some time before it could be moved and repaired.  If his insurance did not make him whole on all the multiple trips, lodging, inconvenence and repair did he have recourse to EAA?

The Missile that was involved in the incident had a minor portion of costs covered by EAA but the owner had substantial out of pocket costs due to the incident.

That is the reason I parked the Rocket at GRB and drove each day.

It’s very saddening to hear about the two other pilots and the Mooney. Thankfully the “had we been” situation didn’t happen and make it even worse this morning.

This was my first trip to OSH and while I will certainly be going again, likely with my own kids next year, I had already decided that my plane wouldn’t be going in to OSH and rolling over the grass no matter how much rolling had been done to it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[exM20K]

2 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

No they didn't but the loss was "no fault of the OP".  By the same logic, neither the EAA nor the OP set a "value" on their children.  Had they not been delayed a few minutes, they would have been at the plane and could have been badly injured, burned or killed.  Are you suggesting it would also be the fault of the OP if there was not enough personal life insurance or medical coverage to fully cover their childrens' lifetime care or loss of life?

Most airshows do not allow flight paths directly over concentrated areas of attendees.  EAA should not allow uncontrolled flight over camping areas.

Good grief.  I deleted that post almost immediately after making it as I find the drift into insurance and liability for hypothetical events icky, given two airmen perished, people on the ground, including children, were likely traumatized, and one of our members lost his plane… I really didn’t want to contribute to the ickyness.  There are two families dealing with the loss of loved ones.  They may happen along here.  Im trying to be a decent human being, so I deleted my post, which you quoted within seconds.  Please do the same to yours, and I’ll delete this one.

My comment, which I immediately deleted was in reference to yours: “And if you are underinsured you are screwed for no fault of your own.”  That is simply not so.  It is the owner’s responsibility to adequately insure their plane. Why would you suggest Im suggesting anything beyond that?

But, seriously: this is a tragic event for all involved. I’m thankful that the OP and family are OK, but mostly saddened by the loss of life. 
-dan

[Skates97]

7 hours ago, druidjaidan said:

My plane for the past 6 years was destroyed today. Two ultralights collided on approach and one of the planes came down on top of my plane.

We were on our way back from the seaplane base, had we decided to take the South 40 bus instead of main gate we, and my children, likely would have been at the tent when it happened.

Grateful you and your kids are okay, one of those small miracles in life that you decided to take a different bus. We walked past your plane many times.

[Fly Boomer]

17 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Interesting discussion about not at fault accidents.  I have a client with a brand new Cirrus who stopped for lunch. A guy in a 172 taxis by a clips his propeller, now requiring prop overhaul, and engine tear down.  He has a deductible high enough that he will be paying for the entire incident through no fault of his own.

We have laws that require insurance if you drive a car.  Maybe we need something similar for pilots.

[Pinecone]

51 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Interesting discussion about not at fault accidents.  I have a client with a brand new Cirrus who stopped for lunch. A guy in a 172 taxis by a clips his propeller, now requiring prop overhaul, and engine tear down.  He has a deductible high enough that he will be paying for the entire incident through no fault of his own.

Glad the OP and family are fine.  

But the closness of this shows you really need to look at your health insurance and make sure you have sufficient coverage.   A major burn can run well over $1 million in treatment.  I know the hard way, but luckily my insurance covered it all.

In the case you mention, the 172 pilot should be responsible for the entire cost of the repairs and down time.  If they do not have insurance, after winning the law suit you can put a lien on the 172 and other real property.

A not in motion claim, should not count against getting insurance in the future.

[JoshK]

We have laws that require insurance if you drive a car.  Maybe we need something similar for pilots.

Writing more laws and getting more bureaucrats involved is rarely the answer that works properly long term.

Laws already exist that allow the Cirrus guy to sue the 172 guy for personal losses like this. Just because there isn’t a direct link to insurance doesn’t mean he can’t recover costs in an alternate approach.

The 172 isn’t totaled from the accident, but the guy may end up having to sell the 172 to pay for the damage caused to the other aircraft. Edge cases (exceptions to the general flow of experience and conditions) rarely make good benchmarks from which to create the foundation of new law. The onerous burden of compliance gets harder and harder for everyone, the costs of compliance go up and up. Aviation is expensive, adding more compliance requirements due to a rare case is only going to raise things even more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jeff Uphoff]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

We have laws that require insurance if you drive a car.  Maybe we need something similar for pilots.

Some states do require liability insurance for aircraft owners--Virginia, for instance. That said, the minimum required policy limits may leave an owner woefully underinsured.

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, Jeff Uphoff said:

Some states do require liability insurance for aircraft owners--Virginia, for instance. That said, the minimum required policy limits may leave an owner woefully underinsured.

It's that way for car insurance, too. Minimums are pricey per thousand, a d it costs little extra to get reasonable limits, but many are only interested in the required minimum amount. 

[Rusty Pilot]

My prayers go out to the families and friends of the pilots that lost their lives.  I am glad you family is ok.  As much as we love our Mooney's they can always be replaced.  

Edited July 30, 2023 by Rusty Pilot

[Echo]

2 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

We have laws that require insurance if you drive a car.  Maybe we need something similar for pilots.

The plane strucks carrier will subrogate to recover their loss AND their customers deductible.  That is why you carry liability coverage.  I am NOT losing my deductible on this incident...

[glbtrottr]

Sorry to hear about your tragedy - that was a good looking F. Hopefully this will pass soon for you and your kids.

Having people perish on top of your airplane can’t be a good memory.

As there will be many twists and turns in this, I may recommend that you get some representation - some have mentioned a lot of ickyness and I resoundingly agree as I deal with airplanes that need paint and repairs all the time. You don’t need the added aggravation from the parties involved, and the families of the deceased have their own stuff to go through.

Find a silver lining in this- perhaps you can get an upgraded airplane and continue living and enjoying where others can’t.

[Pinecone]

50 minutes ago, Hank said:

It's that way for car insurance, too. Minimums are pricey per thousand, a d it costs little extra to get reasonable limits, but many are only interested in the required minimum amount. 

Yeap, Maryland it is $20,000.   How many cars are worth more than $20,000?

[Pinecone]

News vidoe with shots of the Mooney being trucked out of the S40

 

https://www.wbay.com/2023/07/29/reports-crash-eaa/?outputType=amp