What is the difference between the Mooney M20 and the Mooney Executive

[Jpmcaule7]

Is there a difference between the two and what specifically makes them different?

 

 

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[Ron McBride]

All Mooney’s are m20’s.   Mooney’s have gone from wood wings and 150hp.   The F is 10 inches longer have bigger back windows, more gas, useful load and 200 hp.    The newer the planes get the more modern heavier they got, of course more hp and faster.   

[Jpmcaule7]

That is helpful. Thank you


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[A64Pilot]

Executive is like I guess the lariat edition of an F-150

[KLRDMD]

1 hour ago, Ron McBride said:

All Mooney’s are m20’s.   Mooney’s have gone from wood wings and 150hp.   The F is 10 inches longer have bigger back windows, more gas, useful load and 200 hp.    The newer the planes get the more modern heavier they got, of course more hp and faster.   

Most Mooneys are M20s but not all. There is the M10, M18, and M22.

[Pinecone]

The COMMON Mooneys you see are all M20s.

But lots of different models of M20s.

M20 - Original with wood wing and 150 HP Lycoming O-320

M20A - Wood wing, 180 HP Lycoming O-360

M20B - Metal wing 180 HP Lycoming

M20C - Metal and 180 HP Lycoming, also known as Mark 21 and Ranger

M20D - Fixed gear training, convertible to retract, most have been converted. Converted, they become the same as an M20C

M20E - 200 HP Lycoming IO-360, known as Super 21

M20F - 200 HP Lycoming, stretched 10 inches, Executive 21. First of the "mid body" models.  The ones before became "short body" models

M20G - 180HP Lycoming, streched.

M20J - 200HP Lycoming IO-360, mid body, aerodynamic clean up, called the 201.  Basically a faster M20F

M20K 231 - 210 HP turbo charged 6 cylinder Continental TSIO-360 (-GB or -LB) engine

M20K 252 - 210 HP turbo Continental TSIO_360-MB with intercooler and auto wasategate

M20K Encore - change from -MB to -SB engine, 220 HP, higher gross weight

M20L - aka PFM, Porsche 217 HP engine, stretched again to become the "long body" models, most converted to IO-550

M20M - aka TLS for Turbo Lycoming Sabre aka Bravo.  Long body, Lycoming TIO-540, 270 HP

M20R - Ovation/Ovation 2, long body, IO-550  Continental, 280 HP.  STC available to go to 310 HP

M20S - Eagle, IO-550 rated at 244 HP.

M20T -Predator, concept for military training with bubble canopy, sticks instead of yokes, Lycoming AEIO-540, only one built

M20TN - Acclaim, Turbo Normalized TSIO-550, 280 HP

M20U - Ovation Ultra, doors on right and left side.  IO-550, 280 HP

M20V - Acclaim Ultra, doors on both sides. TISO-550, turbo normalized, 280 HP

 

 

[Hank]

2 hours ago, Jpmcaule7 said:

Is there a difference between the two and what specifically makes them different?

There are many models of Mooney:

M20, M20-A, B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, L, R, S, TN, U, V.

Some have numbers:

201, 205, 231, 252, 301.

Some have names also: 

Chaparral, Ranger, Executive, Super, Allegro, Bravo, Eagle, Ovation, Acclaim. Some names append "2" or "3", i.e., Ovation 3. I'm missing some here . . .

Some have fancy STC conversions with new names / numbers:

261, 262, Missile, Rocket, Encore.

They boil down to three airframes:

Original is the short body, with Lycoming engines. All models up through E.

The mid-bodies have an additional 5" back seat legroom and 5" baggage space. These are F-K.

The long bodies are some two feet longer, some for the Continental 6-cylinder engine, and the rest went to additional baggage space. They can be identified by the rear cabin former being visible in the back window on each side. These are everything made begin with L. The two-door long bodies have "Ultra" attached to their names.

Happy hunting!

[Bolter]

22 minutes ago, Hank said:

The mid-bodies have an additional 5" back seat legroom and 5" baggage space. These are F-J.

Great summary, but you left off the K from the mid-body list.  

[Hank]

5 minutes ago, Bolter said:

Great summary, but you left off the K from the mid-body list.  

Oops, it's fixed now.

@Pinecone and I were typing at the same time. he has more details, but a few hp problems on the long bodies, because I'm on my phone.

[Hank]

34 minutes ago, Hank said:

There are many models of Mooney:

M20, M20-A, B, C, D, E, F, G, J, K, L, R, S, TN, U, V.

Some have numbers:

201, 205, 231, 252, 301.

Some have names also: 

Chaparral, Ranger, Executive, Super, Allegro, Bravo, Eagle, Ovation, Acclaim. Some names append "2" or "3", i.e., Ovation 3. I'm missing some here . . .

Some have fancy STC conversions with new names / numbers:

261, 262, Missile, Rocket, Encore.

They boil down to three airframes:

Original is the short body, with Lycoming engines. All models up through E.

The mid-bodies have an additional 5" back seat legroom and 5" baggage space. These are F-K.

The long bodies are some two feet longer, some for the Continental 6-cylinder engine, and the rest went to additional baggage space. They can be identified by the rear cabin former being visible in the back window on each side. These are everything made begin with L. The two-door long bodies have "Ultra" attached to their names.

Happy hunting!

OMG!! TMI!!

I've owned a C for over 15 years now. Why do I know all of this stuff about other models that I've never owned and likely never will???

My name is Hank, and I'm a Mooniac . . . .

[EricJ]

11 minutes ago, Hank said:

OMG!! TMI!!

I've owned a C for over 15 years now. Why do I know all of this stuff about other models that I've never owned and likely never will???

My name is Hank, and I'm a Mooniac . . . .

The real nerds know there were a string of other numbers lower than M18 which included a lot of fabric-covered airplanes, biplanes, airplanes with round motors, etc., and even things like the M300 after the M22.   Depending on how you count, there were some military airplanes, too.   

 

[Fly Boomer]

42 minutes ago, EricJ said:

The real nerds know there were a string of other numbers lower than M18 which included a lot of fabric-covered airplanes, biplanes, airplanes with round motors, etc., and even things like the M300 after the M22.   Depending on how you count, there were some military airplanes, too.   

 

Let’s not forget the “Mooney Mitsubishi”.

[kortopates]

Great job mooniac nerds!
But if your going to go that far might as well clean up the mooney marketing disinformation referring to the Acclaims as “Turbo Normalized”. The Acclaim engine has nothing in common with a “Turbo Normalized”. Even Cirrus pilots know this well because Cirrus offered 3 variants for awhile NA, Turbo and Turbo Normalized.
Are mooney pilots that gullible? I hope not!


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[Hank]

2 hours ago, EricJ said:

The real nerds know there were a string of other numbers lower than M18 which included a lot of fabric-covered airplanes, biplanes, airplanes with round motors, etc., and even things like the M300 after the M22.   Depending on how you count, there were some military airplanes, too.   

Yea, I have a Culver Cadet, designed by dear ol' Al, that hangs on my Christmas tree. From Hallmark, no less!

The plane that we all enjoy was his 20th design, the first several having a 2nd wing and most of the predecessors being of wooden construction. Even the original M20 with fixed pitch prop and funny engine had a metal fuselage with wooden wing and tail.

The 301 was too early for the required supporting technology, and the quest led to one of the several bankruptcies . . . .

My favorite story was of early production Mites in a grocery store, priced at 5 cents per pound.  

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Some have fancy STC conversions with new names / numbers:

261, 262, Missile, Rocket, Encore.

 

Encore is not an STC Conversion.  It is a factory model.

A 252 may be converted to an Encore, however NO STC is required, as they are both M20K and same TCDS.  So you just have to change the engine (change in Max RPM and Max Manifold pressure, no internal changes) and change the 252 to match two factory drawings.  This entails installing the dual puck brakes from the long bodies and change the control surface balance weights.

261 and 262 are basically a 231 more like a 252.  Missile and Rocket are major engine changes to big block Continental engines.

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

Great job mooniac nerds!
But if your going to go that far might as well clean up the mooney marketing disinformation referring to the Acclaims as “Turbo Normalized”. The Acclaim engine has nothing in common with a “Turbo Normalized”. Even Cirrus pilots know this well because Cirrus offered 3 variants for awhile NA, Turbo and Turbo Normalized.
Are mooney pilots that gullible? I hope not!

Explain?

My understanding is TN means turbo charged, but limited to sea level NA manifold pressure (30 inches), versus normal turbo engines which run higher manifold pressures.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

Explain?

My understanding is TN means turbo charged, but limited to sea level NA manifold pressure (30 inches), versus normal turbo engines which run higher manifold pressures.

I believe turbocharged engines are designed to be turbocharged and have fairly low compression ratios and run higher manifold pressure to generate rated power. Turbo normalized engines are generally NA engines with a turbo added to allow sea level manifold pressure to be maintained at higher altitudes. Actually, they are all correctly supercharged engines. The term turbosupercharger (shortened to turbocharger) was coined to differentiate it from mechanical (gear driven) superchargers.

[EricJ]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

I believe turbocharged engines are designed to be turbocharged and have fairly low compression ratios and run higher manifold pressure to generate rated power. Turbo normalized engines are generally NA engines with a turbo added to allow sea level manifold pressure to be maintained at higher altitudes. Actually, they are all correctly supercharged engines. The term turbosupercharger (shortened to turbocharger) was coined to differentiate it from mechanical (gear driven) superchargers.

In A&P school the term explanations were: turbocharged just meant the intake was pressurized with an exhaust-driven turbine and compressor, turbo-normalized was a turbocharger added to an otherwise NA-configured engine so it could maintain sea-level pressure at higher altitude, and supercharged meant intake pressures higher than 30 inches (i.e., above sea-level pressure).    So a turbo-supercharger was an exhaust-driven turbine that pressurized the intake above 30 inhg map.   In WWII there were a lot of mechanical "superchargers" that weren't exhaust driven but still produced over 30" map, so I think the "supercharger" name without the "turbo" prefix eventually just came to mean a mechanical compressor with no turbine.

[PT20J]

All the radial engines were supercharged with the supercharger in the rear driven from the crankshaft. The earliest ones were single stage, single speed superchargers. During WWII turbochargers were added to extend the altitude range for the B-17 and B-24. According to Herschel Smith's fascinating A History of Aircraft Engines, the reason the Merlin engine turned out to be a better engine for the P-51 was because it had a 2 stage, 2 speed supercharger whereas the Allison had a single stage, single speed supercharger having been designed to use turbocharging. But during the war, there was a shortage of tungsten for building General Electric turbochargers and the limited supply was allocated to the bombers. Later fighters such as the P-40 and P-38 got turbochargers.

[kortopates]

Yep, Skip and Eric gave good explanations.

Another key point is that none of the engine manufacturers make a TN engine. Only NA and Turbo charged engines that where designed for that role with different compression ratios: usually 8.5:1 for NA and usually 7.5:1 for Turbo. A TN - turbo normalized engine is usually an STC for a NA engine to add the turbo to provide for full sea level power up at altitude.
Tornado Alley is the biggest provider of TN kits but there are others like Western Skyways.

Mooney marketing was trying to suggest Acclaim pilots wouldn’t suffer some of the bad rap associated with turbo engines by saying since the Acclaim max boost was just a few inches over sea level it was more like the more efficient NA engines. Which is entirely false.
In actuality the -G engines used on the Ovation and Acclaims are derated from the full HP -N variants used on competitor airframes.
Leave it to the marketing department to try and convince buyers that’s actually better.


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[M20F]

Lot of FUD in this thread.  Simply put The Executive represents the pinnacle of Mooney.  It’s in the name.  Would you rather pull up to the ramp in an Executive or a “Ranger”.  Executives represent those of us who read Town & Country for the articles and know a good cigar when we see it. 
 
Champagne kisses and caviar dreams. 

[Pinecone]

OK, everyone is saying the same thing as I understood.

It is just that kortopates is saying the Mooney is playing word games.

Looking at the specs. the TSIO-550-G is a 7.5 to 1 compression ratio and the IO-550-G is 8.5 to 1, so the Acclaim is really not a TN engine.  Also, max manifold pressure is 33.5, so it is boosted.

[PT20J]

Paul makes an observation that TN is an aftermarket add-on while production turbocharged engines are boosted. The reason is that normalization is intended only to extend the altitude range of a NA engine. However, boosting allows a lower displacement (and thus smaller, lighter) engine to produce the same horsepower as a larger NA engine (or alternatively, the same size engine can be made to produce more power). This is because power output is limited by the amount of fuel that can be burned which is in turn limited by the amount of air admitted during the intake stroke. Boosting increases the number or oxygen molecules in the charge which allows more fuel to be burned and more power to be produced with the same displacement. Nothing is free, however, and boosting reduces the detonation margin. With a given octane fuel, the only ways to recover the detonation margin are to retard timing, decrease compression ratio, reduce the temperature of the charge or richen the mixture. Boosted engines use some combination of these, but primarily use reduced compression ratios which causes a loss in efficiency and gives rise to the differing LOP power vs fuel flow multipliers for turbocharged and NA engines. Reduced boosted detonation margin is also why turbocharged engines are so easily damaged by mixture mismanagement at high powers.

[natdm]

On 7/26/2023 at 12:45 PM, Pinecone said:

....

M20R - Ovation/Ovation 2, long body, IO-550  Continental, 280 HP.  STC available to go to 210 HP

....

Do you mean 310 HP?

[EricJ]

3 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

Surely they mentioned the Wright 3350 turbo compound engines?

We had one at the school!    Freakin' awesome beast.