Blew the landing, blew the tire

[231LV]

This is a first in over 20 years of flying my 231. I have had my share of really bad landings but today took the cake. Coming in a bit high and fast, I got sloppy and overconfident and instead of popping the speed brakes (which I actually thought about for a moment) I let the plane float...one bounce, two bounce then down but too far down the runway and too fast so instead of executing a go-around, I stomped on the brakes and was told I was smoking the tire for several hundred feet before it blew pulling the plane to the right. I was fortunate that all I appear to have damaged (beside my ego) was the tire. Warning to all out there, don't get overconfident...no matter how long you have been flying and if you believe you need to go around....GO AROUND!

[toto]

Thanks for sharing

Good advice for all of us.

 

I was going to paste a link to the Ken Dravis song "You Can Always Go Around" - but I couldn't find a link to the song.  Here's a YouTube video that uses the Dravis song for background audio.

 

[Ragsf15e]

Just be glad you didn’t hit the prop on that 3rd bounce! That’s the normal ending.  Much more painful to both the ego and wallet.

[Mooney in Oz]

I’ve almost come close with only a bit of rubber scrubbed. Although the tyre was still serviceable, it was enough to make me want to fit a new tyre so I wasn’t reminded of my own stupidity each time I looked at it.

Re the speed brakes, at that late stage you may as well poke your pinky finger out the storm window for all the good it will do. You also don’t want them deployed in case you suddenly decide to go around. In a stressful moment you can mistakenly press the wrong button or they may even become stuck in the deployed position at a critical stage when you need all that performance.

Glad it was only the tyre and thanks for sharing.

[BloodRedSkies]

5 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

I’ve almost come close with only a bit of rubber scrubbed. Although the tyre was still serviceable, it was enough to make me want to fit a new tyre so I wasn’t reminded of my own stupidity each time I looked at it.

Re the speed brakes, at that late stage you may as well poke your pinky finger out the storm window for all the good it will do. You also don’t want them deployed in case you suddenly decide to go around. In a stressful moment you can mistakenly press the wrong button or they may even become stuck in the deployed position at a critical stage when you need all that performance.

Glad it was only the tyre and thanks for sharing.

Very good advice it was the same thing I was going to reiterate. If you feel the need to have flight spoilers out during landing(or final approach)that was the point you(OP) should have went around. Very glad it was just a wounded rubber experience and nothing worse. 

Edited May 21, 2023 by BloodRedSkies

[larrynimmo]

The other day I went to land at a2,750’ runway…and plane was high as a kite!…no wind.

I decided that half way point was touch down limit to go around.

I hit that spot, decided not to go around and applied brake sparingly and stopped short of the end, but felt I should have more aggressively applied braking.

for my comfort, minimum runway after touchdown (sea level) is 1,200.

[MoonFlyer68]

Been there.  Done that. Got the T-shirt.

[Z W]

Been there, done that, just finished changing a tire (although I think it was someone else this time).  Very easy to scrape all that rubber off trying to brake while the plane is still almost flying.

I'm going to work on using forward slips when high or fast on final.  A recommendation from my CFI at the MAPA clinic this April.  Always avoided those due to the POH warning about doing them with full flaps.  Apparently with half flaps they're just fine, and maybe with full flaps too.  We did some and nothing bad happened.

Speed brakes are not very effective at all below 100 KIAS, they get blanked out at high angles of attack.  Not a good landing tool, although supposedly they start working when the nose wheel touches down and the angle of attack lowers again.

I'm also getting more comfortable flying final at 70-75 KIAS, especially when solo and light weight with light winds.  There's a lot of float left in my plane at those speeds.  And it really solves the runway length problem.  

Thanks for sharing.

[231LV]

9 hours ago, toto said:

Thanks for sharing

Good advice for all of us.

 

I was going to paste a link to the Ken Dravis song "You Can Always Go Around" - but I couldn't find a link to the song.  Here's a YouTube video that uses the Dravis song for background audio.

 

LOL...great training melody!! Thanks

 

[EricJ]

2 hours ago, MoonFlyer68 said:

Been there.  Done that. Got the T-shirt.

That's not a flat spot;  This is a flat spot:

[kortopates]

Been there, done that, just finished changing a tire (although I think it was someone else this time).  Very easy to scrape all that rubber off trying to brake while the plane is still almost flying.
I'm going to work on using forward slips when high or fast on final.  A recommendation from my CFI at the MAPA clinic this April.  Always avoided those due to the POH warning about doing them with full flaps.  Apparently with half flaps they're just fine, and maybe with full flaps too.  We did some and nothing bad happened.
Speed brakes are not very effective at all below 100 KIAS, they get blanked out at high angles of attack.  Not a good landing tool, although supposedly they start working when the nose wheel touches down and the angle of attack lowers again.
I'm also getting more comfortable flying final at 70-75 KIAS, especially when solo and light weight with light winds.  There's a lot of float left in my plane at those speeds.  And it really solves the runway length problem.  
Thanks for sharing.

Two suggestions:
Forward slips with flaps in the K and later are fine as long as not done to slower than 85 kts w/ full flaps. (There has never been a concern about slipping J’s and earlier airframes.) Plus there will be plenty of warning if you're getting too slow in the form of aerodynamic buffeting in the tail horizontal stabilizer/elevator to encourage you decrease back pressure.

Secondly, its time to go around if we can't land within at least the first third 1/3 of the runway.  Its clearly no longer a stabilized approach and should be aborted and a requirement of any professional pilot (91.175); and should be for us too. Go arounds are good practice; especially developing a habit aborting un-stabilized approaches.

Note you can't really tell where the plane is going to land till you have the plane slowed to final approach speed of 70-75 kts, so if unable to get it trimmed to final approach speed by 200' AGL and also high, its also time to go around. 

[Hank]

I raise flaps after the nose comes down. Holding the throttle to Idle, I just have to reach out one finger--the gear requires letting go if the throttle and raising my hand, so no chance of "hitting the wrong switch."

THEN I can think about braking, but prefer to wait for 50 or less on the ASI.

[DCarlton]

12 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Just be glad you didn’t hit the prop on that 3rd bounce! That’s the normal ending.  Much more painful to both the ego and wallet.

Yep.  The only time I've ever let it go beyond two is when I've tried adding a touch of power to dampen the third one.  Two significant bounces then go around seems to be a good rule.  

[A64Pilot]

If the POH says don’t slip with flaps

Don't slip with flaps.

Think about trying to explain that to the accident investigator, yeah I know what the POH says, but these guys on the internet say different and or I tried it once and nothing bad happened. Why it’s there is sort of irrelevant, either Mooney and or the FAA came to the conclusion that there is a safety issue with slipping with flaps. Maybe it takes a crosswind to have something bad happen or maybe aft CG, who knows? It is real, or it wouldn’t be there.

I will bet you lunch that your airplane will go around fine with speed brakes deployed and is still controllable etc with only one deployed, because I’m certain Mooney had to prove that during Certification. Now whether or not they make any significant difference I can’t say never having used them for landing, I’ve not flown an aircraft that had them since 92

[201Mooniac]

2 hours ago, kortopates said:

Forward slips with flaps in the K and later are fine as long as long as not done to slower than 85 kts w/ full flaps.

Paul, Just so I understand, are you saying forward slips with flaps in a J or earlier are not fine?  I've used forward slips in my J a few times to fix my high or fast (both high and fast for me is a go around) and never had any concern.  Should I be concerned?

[kortopates]

Paul, Just so I understand, are you saying forward slips with flaps in a J or earlier are not fine?  I've used forward slips in my J a few times to fix my high or fast (both high and fast for me is a go around) and never had any concern.  Should I be concerned?

no not at all, sorry that was confusing. The factory (Bob Kromer) reported long ago to be careful in K’s and the L’s when they were flight testing them to be careful about slipping them below 80-85 kts with full flaps and full up trim, since you could get some aerodynamic buffeting in the horizontal stab/elevator. Thus the caution to be careful about not doing them too slow.

But It’s never been an issue in the J and earlier airframes. There are no restrictions in any airframe just the caution to not get too slow doing them in the K and later models.
Every pilot should be comfortable skipping their mooney. It’s a requirement for every Private pilots to demonstrate in the ACS as well.

i edited the original post above to clarify.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mooneymite]

I'm not saying how I happen to know this, but for someone who made more than half his Mooney landings, on grass....it is very poor conditioning for proper braking on asphalt!

[PT20J]

Good judgement comes from experience; experience comes from bad judgement. Now you have move experience. Welcome to the club! 

[hais]

My FBO discovered that towing a Mooney with a flat gear isn't trivial. The gear door was interfering with jacking. Started talking about removing the gear door. They eventually got creative and hoisted the airplane onto two dollies. 

Those who experienced that : what technique works best? 

[Fly Boomer]

9 hours ago, hais said:

My FBO discovered that towing a Mooney with a flat gear isn't trivial. The gear door was interfering with jacking. Started talking about removing the gear door. They eventually got creative and hoisted the airplane onto two dollies. 

Those who experienced that : what technique works best? 

I'll be interested to read the responses to this from those that know.  I believe that more airplanes are damaged or destroyed by the recovery following a mishap, than whatever damage resulted from the mishap itself.

[0TreeLemur]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

I'll be interested to read the responses to this from those that know.  I believe that more airplanes are damaged or destroyed by the recovery following a mishap, than whatever damage resulted from the mishap itself.

Along those lines: can anyone point to a previous thread(s) here on MS with photos showing a proper recoveries after mishaps?   Horror stories are interesting, but improved understanding of how to do it correctly would be valuable (and FAQ worthy).

[hais]

I didn't take the photos of the solution unfortunately. They had to lift the whole gear and rest it on a trolley.

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, hais said:

didn't take the photos of the solution unfortunately. They had to lift the whole gear and rest it on a trolley

I can hear the gear doors saying “ouch ouch ouch”.

EDIT:  Super clean gear!

[hais]

51 minutes ago, Fly Boomer said:

Super clean gear!

Thanks!

[231LV]

On 5/21/2023 at 9:28 PM, hais said:

My FBO discovered that towing a Mooney with a flat gear isn't trivial. The gear door was interfering with jacking. Started talking about removing the gear door. They eventually got creative and hoisted the airplane onto two dollies. 

Those who experienced that : what technique works best? 

Its almost impossible to trundle a Mooney with a flat main gear unless the two gear doors are first removed. It's cheap insurance to avoid damaging one or both.