can battery minder damage anything?

[DonMuncy]

I have posted this before, but it is worth mentioning again. Keeping your battery on a battery-minder is a good thing. But it has the possibilty of masking a problem. It is possible for the battery to appear great, but go down rapidly when disconnected. Like when you fly out of town for an overnight. It is wise to disconnect it for 48 hours occasionally to see if it drops. Your IA is supposed do a capacity check at annual, but I suspect that many do not.

[Ragsf15e]

48 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

I have posted this before, but it is worth mentioning again. Keeping your battery on a battery-minder is a good thing. But it has the possibilty of masking a problem. It is possible for the battery to appear great, but go down rapidly when disconnected. Like when you fly out of town for an overnight. It is wise to disconnect it for 48 hours occasionally to see if it drops. Your IA is supposed do a capacity check at annual, but I suspect that many do not.

Yeah, I agree it can mask a problem.  I watched mine get its capacity checked (~2 hours on the tester), but if you’re not getting checked annually, starting the engine isn’t a great metric.  Doesn’t really matter if you’re using a battery minder or not, starting the engine isn’t a capacity check.

[A64Pilot]

1 hour ago, DonMuncy said:

I have posted this before, but it is worth mentioning again. Keeping your battery on a battery-minder is a good thing. But it has the possibilty of masking a problem. It is possible for the battery to appear great, but go down rapidly when disconnected. Like when you fly out of town for an overnight. It is wise to disconnect it for 48 hours occasionally to see if it drops. Your IA is supposed do a capacity check at annual, but I suspect that many do not.

Every battery except a Concorde is supposed to be cap checked before installation. Concorde doesn’t require it because it’s cap checked prior to shipping.

Have you ever seen a new battery cap checked?

 

[Shadrach]

@dominikos, how do the rest of your terminals look? Corrosion can certainly affect how the charging system performs and the images you’ve posted show corrosion.

[dominikos]

I’m planning to clean terminals this Saturday, add extra wire to alternator and test again. I will report back after the weekend.

are there any more terminals to check?

[Shadrach]

51 minutes ago, dominikos said:

I’m planning to clean terminals this Saturday, add extra wire to alternator and test again. I will report back after the weekend.

are there any more terminals to check?

Start at the master relay (connected to the positive lead coming off the batter) and work backwards toward the battery. Anything more in-depth should involve an A&P.
My battery recently developed enough corrosion on the negative lead to cause starting problems. I theorized that during annual, having it off the smart charger for several weeks while repeatedly powering up avionics caused a small amount of corrosion. It was enough to compromise the ground.   It would not cold start the engine but tested fine at the terminals. Light green powder on negative terminal. Removed, cleaned and reinstalled, no further issues.

[A64Pilot]

Once you clean terminals a little Corrosion-X seems to help keep them clean

[Jerry 5TJ]

On 2/21/2023 at 8:24 PM, A64Pilot said:

Every battery except a Concorde is supposed to be cap checked before installation. Concorde doesn’t require it because it’s cap checked prior to shipping.

Have you ever seen a new battery cap checked?

 

Yes, I do capacity testing for my new batteries before installing them to provide a baseline.  My two most recent batteries showed around 107% when new (extrapolated from the 60 minute test graph).  

The batteries are tested at 12 months or 250 flight hours, whichever comes first. They are replaced when the capacity has decreased to 80% of specified amp-hour rating.

When someone posts “my battery lasted X years” they’re just telling us they don’t capacity test, instead they use the battery until it can’t crank the engine. 

[A64Pilot]

I’ve only very rarely seen an A&P cap check a new battery, in truth only rarely have I seen them cap checked at all, so your sort of a lone ranger from what I’ve seen.

Yes a battery is considered “dead” at 80% capacity, but warm weather etc it’s likely one at 50% or less will start an engine with no issues.

[Greg Ellis]

When I first got my Mooney and really knew nothing about anything other than flying it, I thought my battery was great because it always started the airplane.  It was going on 4-5 years old but the plane still cranked over in one or two blades and felt strong so I thought I was golden.  One night, coming home and almost at my home airport, I lost my generator (now an alternator).  Well, suffice to say, 5-10 minutes later I landed dark.  No lights, no radio, no nothing.  Thank the Lord that our engines have magnetos so the engine kept running.  I really thought I had a great battery.  It lasted 5-10 minutes.  So anyone who is happy that their 6, 7, 8 year old battery still starts their airplane, do a capacity test on it and see just how strong it really is.  My $.02 which really gets you nothing these days.

[PT20J]

Had a six year old battery in my Subaru. Always started fine. One day I left the door ajar for about two hours. Wouldn’t crank. That little interior light ran it dead in two hours. Cranking amps is not the same as capacity. If you fly IFR, your life depends on that thing. Get a capacity check.

[Bartman]

I bought a new BMW 328i in 2014. 
9 years later it still cranks strong, even after sitting outside in the sub zero weather that we had at Christmas time this winter. 

I figure I will change it this fall. 

[Fly Boomer]

Just now, Bartman said:

I bought a new BMW 328i in 2014. 

Do you know the battery technology?

[Bartman]

No, but I know the original battery is still going strong 9 years later.  The battery is massive, much larger than I have ever seen in my previous cars. I have no expertise in this subject but I’m pretty sure the large size translates to capacity and longevity compared to the demand. The small size of the battery in my J would have the opposite.  

[Bartman]

BTW one should not take my single data point and translate that to aviation. We changed my Concorde at 6 years. 

[A64Pilot]

In 2005 we bought a CTS-V, as I have had a Delco battery leak on me before I put an Optima red top in it before it’s first tank of gas, actually I took the battery out of the 2002 Z28 we were trading for the V.

The car did sit in storage with the battery disconnected for three years and the car has spent much of its life in storage, the last couple of years on float.

But that what, 20 yr old battery starts the LS6 small block easily still, never tried a cap check, because you know, it’s a car

I don’t have a clue how or why it’s lasted so long, surely it has to be heavily sulphated.

Except for my Golf Cart I will only use AGM batteries

[OR75]

Only issue with battery minder is if the wall power is off ( blackouts seem to be more and more common these days) or if you forget to plug the minder to the wall 

the minder will drain the plane battery and a fully drained battery may or not recover well 

[Fly Boomer]

19 hours ago, OR75 said:

Only issue with battery minder is if the wall power is off ( blackouts seem to be more and more common these days) or if you forget to plug the minder to the wall 

the minder will drain the plane battery and a fully drained battery may or not recover well 

Haven't tested it, but mine says:

Includes Short circuit, spark, reverse polarity protection, thermal runaway protection, automatic D/C disconnect on A/C failure and quick-connect/disconnect fused alligator clip assembly.

Emphasis is mine.

[Shadrach]

On 2/25/2023 at 8:47 AM, Bartman said:

I bought a new BMW 328i in 2014. 
9 years later it still cranks strong, even after sitting outside in the sub zero weather that we had at Christmas time this winter. 

I figure I will change it this fall. 

The factory AGM in my 2014 535d was replaced last year. The car self diagnosed the issue before it became a start up problem. The decline happened rapidly. Desulfator bought a few extra weeks before the message came back. I replaced it with a Deka AGM. Capacity test did not take long to confirm my OEM battery was borderline.

[carusoam]

Hmmmmm…

Anyone get a BatteryMinder for their car’s battery?

The car that lives in the garage and only comes out on nice weather days….

My ancient expedition drains more electrons in a week… than an ordinary battery can keep up with…

Somewhere there is a relay that isn’t resetting correctly… and retries endlessly every five minutes or so… 

So now that truck has a cheap float charger keeping it alive…

 

PP thoughts only… lamenting….

-a-

[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Hmmmmm…

Anyone get a BatteryMinder for their car’s battery?

The car that lives in the garage and only comes out on nice weather days….

My ancient expedition drains more electrons in a week… than an ordinary battery can keep up with…

Somewhere there is a relay that isn’t resetting correctly… and retries endlessly every five minutes or so… 

So now that truck has a cheap float charger keeping it alive…

 

PP thoughts only… lamenting….

-a-

I have one nailed to the garage wall.  I can't say I plug it in every time I park the car, but I like to give it some love pretty often.  My car is a Prius, and the batteryMINDer goes on the 12-volt battery.  It's about the size of a motorcycle battery (the engine has no starter, so not much demand), but when it's dead, you can't start the car because the computer won't boot.  A couple of years ago, without warning, it was fine one day, and absolutely totally dead the next.  I didn't want to try to resurrect it, so I just put in a new one from Toyota -- somewhere between $300 and $400.  If the batteryMINDer can stretch the life a couple of years, it will pay for itself.

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

Hmmmmm…

Anyone get a BatteryMinder for their car’s battery?

The car that lives in the garage and only comes out on nice weather days….

For cars, I used Battery Tender brand.

I have 3 cars that live on them.

One is a collector car that almost never gets driven.

One is a nice car that is parked for the winter (tires and road salt).

One is a Jeep Grand Cherokee that only gets driven when I need the space, so it can go weeks without being driven.

For my portable generator for the house, I do have a Battery Minder brand to keep the battery charged

[EricJ]

10 hours ago, carusoam said:

Hmmmmm…

Anyone get a BatteryMinder for their car’s battery?

The car that lives in the garage and only comes out on nice weather days….

My ancient expedition drains more electrons in a week… than an ordinary battery can keep up with…

Somewhere there is a relay that isn’t resetting correctly… and retries endlessly every five minutes or so… 

So now that truck has a cheap float charger keeping it alive…

 

PP thoughts only… lamenting….

-a-

I bought a new Ranger so my old one that I bought new 23 years ago now lives in the garage connected to a Sears Craftsman battery tender that I've had for a long time.   Otherwise the stereo head unit will drain the batt in a couple of weeks.   Anybody need a 2000 4x4 Ranger 4.0L? 

 

[Mac80]

Our Concorde RG-24-15M installed in 1-19-2014. I usually charge it before starting when setting cold for several days. I was told that it is hard on alternator to be charging discharged batteries so I usually charge battery up a couple of days before or less before flight. I have not had to replace and alternator since I started this routine.

I stopped using my remote trickle charger with side plug in but plan to use in again now till I get a replacement battery.  Yesterday February 28 I had to charge Concorde after setting 8 days and overnight freezes to get a start. I did not do a charge prior to the start attempt.

I have lost charge at least once or more when the trickle charger drew down the battery excessively when power was lost apparently to the hangar. The charger seemed to be drawing power from battery when plugged in when lost AC. 

I am going to try to use trickle charger again and will use volt meter to see how it is doing after I see condition of battery with the larger charger on. I won’t be walking away leaving installed for long durations without checking on condition and have FBO helping search for a new sealed battery. Out parts man notices better duration from sealed batteries.

I would be hesitant to have or use installed charger as I do not trust power companies or chargers enough without checking on them.

 

 

 

[Fly Boomer]

59 minutes ago, Mac80 said:

Our Concorde RG-24-15M installed in 1-19-2014. I usually charge it before starting when setting cold for several days. I was told that it is hard on alternator to be charging discharged batteries so I usually charge battery up a couple of days before or less before flight. I have not had to replace and alternator since I started this routine.

I stopped using my remote trickle charger with side plug in but plan to use in again now till I get a replacement battery.  Yesterday February 28 I had to charge Concorde after setting 8 days and overnight freezes to get a start. I did not do a charge prior to the start attempt.

I have lost charge at least once or more when the trickle charger drew down the battery excessively when power was lost apparently to the hangar. The charger seemed to be drawing power from battery when plugged in when lost AC. 

I am going to try to use trickle charger again and will use volt meter to see how it is doing after I see condition of battery with the larger charger on. I won’t be walking away leaving installed for long durations without checking on condition and have FBO helping search for a new sealed battery. Out parts man notices better duration from sealed batteries.

I would be hesitant to have or use installed charger as I do not trust power companies or chargers enough without checking on them.

 

 

 

Don’t know what kind of charger you are using, but the BatteryMINDer device designed for your Concord protects against discharge if mains are off.  See my post above:

https://mooneyspace.com/topic/44764-can-battery-minder-damage-anything/?do=findComment&comment=788011