Repair station with extensive Mooney experience

[Balckbird]

I hope all is well. I am looking to purchase an M20F and I would welcome any recommendations on reputable Mooney maintenance / repair stations with a long track record of operation and extensive Mooney experience in the Midwest; a reasonable distance from the St Louis, MO, area, for a pre-purchase inspection. The two nearby Mooney certified repair stations in Kansa City and Illinois are booked for weeks / months. I would appreciate any input. Thanks.
 

[Ragsf15e]

Dmax in Longview tx is probably your best bet.  Thorough, fair, most Mooney knowledge there is. KGGG.

[0TreeLemur]

Cole Aviation in Dalton, Georgia, is another option.   They are located about 30 nm SE of Chattanooga, TN.  They are a MSC.

Good luck!

[chriscalandro]

17 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Dmax in Longview tx is probably your best bet.  Thorough, fair, most Mooney knowledge there is. KGGG.

When someone says reasonable distance from St Louis you think the western part of Texas?

 

id never let anyone fly my airplane that far away from me without me having money in hand first. 

[Ragsf15e]

41 minutes ago, chriscalandro said:

When someone says reasonable distance from St Louis you think the western part of Texas?

 

id never let anyone fly my airplane that far away from me without me having money in hand first. 

I guess it’s lucky he’s not buying from you.  

It’s a 3 hour flight, but to a well known/respected msc.  I’d actually prefer that if I was the seller.  Better than someone completely unknown to me with unknown Mooney knowledge wrenching on my airplane for a prebuy.

[mooniac15u]

2 hours ago, chriscalandro said:

When someone says reasonable distance from St Louis you think the western part of Texas?

 

id never let anyone fly my airplane that far away from me without me having money in hand first. 

Longview is less than 100miles from Arkansas.  Not exactly the western part of Texas.

[chriscalandro]

And 425 miles still isn’t a reasonable distance. 

[hammdo]

For an owner, a reasonable distance would be considered around 100 NM.  As much as I really like DMAX, that is too far without some kind of contract/money down (I would not let mine go 400 NM just for a pre-buy without a solid contract and money down - 20% or more).  A good A&P could do the pre-buy/pre-buy-annual and, talk with an MSC if requested by the buyer.  I know quite a few A&P's that are not MSC's and do a great job with the Mooney.   I'm not sure how many owners would allow a 400 NM trip with no solid contract in writing and money on the table.  On top of that, who would fly it there?  That would also require some kind of compensation too.  Seems a lot to ask for an owner to take on if there are local resources capable of doing the pre-buy.

I'm lucky that DMAX is only 45 minutes from me (by plane).  I also have a local A&P who knows Mooneys (he owns and E) on site @ HQZ as well as another A&P in Commerce (2F7) who's worked on Mooneys for years.  All within a 45 to 60 minute flight.

I'm sure in there are other capable A&P's in MO and IL that work on Mooneys.  (Shame David ( @Sabremech ) is retiring -  he's in Waukegan IL an is and excellent A&P, FAA-PMA, IA.  I bought my Mooney from him.

You may need to call shops (that is what I did here for local A&P's) to find those that work on Mooneys.  I used ForeFlight to look for shops and called them up.

-Don

[Ragsf15e]

49 minutes ago, hammdo said:

For an owner, a reasonable distance would be considered around 100 NM.  As much as I really like DMAX, that is too far without some kind of contract/money down (I would not let mine go 400 NM just for a pre-buy without a solid contract and money down - 20% or more).  A good A&P could do the pre-buy/pre-buy-annual and, talk with an MSC if requested by the buyer.  I know quite a few A&P's that are not MSC's and do a great job with the Mooney.   I'm not sure how many owners would allow a 400 NM trip with no solid contract in writing and money on the table.  On top of that, who would fly it there?  That would also require some kind of compensation too.  Seems a lot to ask for an owner to take on if there are local resources capable of doing the pre-buy.

I'm lucky that DMAX is only 45 minutes from me (by plane).  I also have a local A&P who knows Mooneys (he owns and E) on site @ HQZ as well as another A&P in Commerce (2F7) who's worked on Mooneys for years.  All within a 45 to 60 minute flight.

I'm sure in there are other capable A&P's in MO and IL that work on Mooneys.  (Shame David ( @Sabremech ) is retiring -  he's in Waukegan IL and is and excellent A&P, FAA-PMA, IA.  I bought my Mooney from him.

You may need to call shops (that is what I did here for local A&P's) to find those that work on Mooneys.  I used ForeFlight to look for shops and called them up.

-Don

It’s been a while since I purchased, but I think it’s common to have a signed contract and deposit before any prebuy starts anyway. I definitely agree with that.  Depending on the contract, the owner keeps the deposit if the buyer backs out for certain reasons.  You’re also right that the owner should be compensated for flying the aircraft down there or paying someone else to.

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

Longview is less than 100miles from Arkansas.  Not exactly the western part of Texas.

About as far east in Texas as you can get.

[Sabremech]

2 hours ago, hammdo said:

For an owner, a reasonable distance would be considered around 100 NM.  As much as I really like DMAX, that is too far without some kind of contract/money down (I would not let mine go 400 NM just for a pre-buy without a solid contract and money down - 20% or more).  A good A&P could do the pre-buy/pre-buy-annual and, talk with an MSC if requested by the buyer.  I know quite a few A&P's that are not MSC's and do a great job with the Mooney.   I'm not sure how many owners would allow a 400 NM trip with no solid contract in writing and money on the table.  On top of that, who would fly it there?  That would also require some kind of compensation too.  Seems a lot to ask for an owner to take on if there are local resources capable of doing the pre-buy.

I'm lucky that DMAX is only 45 minutes from me (by plane).  I also have a local A&P who knows Mooneys (he owns and E) on site @ HQZ as well as another A&P in Commerce (2F7) who's worked on Mooneys for years.  All within a 45 to 60 minute flight.

I'm sure in there are other capable A&P's in MO and IL that work on Mooneys.  (Shame David ( @Sabremech ) is retiring -  he's in Waukegan IL an is and excellent A&P, FAA-PMA, IA.  I bought my Mooney from him.

You may need to call shops (that is what I did here for local A&P's) to find those that work on Mooneys.  I used ForeFlight to look for shops and called them up.

-Don

Hi Don,

Plan is to retire from full time work in a little over three years. Then it’s on to the fun Mooney stuff on my schedule. Not planning to open a shop full time, but will be doing cowlings, and other neat Mooney things I can get into.

Thanks,

David

[Guest]

On 10/27/2022 at 5:14 PM, Balckbird said:

I hope all is well. I am looking to purchase an M20F and I would welcome any recommendations on reputable Mooney maintenance / repair stations with a long track record of operation and extensive Mooney experience in the Midwest; a reasonable distance from the St Louis, MO, area, for a pre-purchase inspection. The two nearby Mooney certified repair stations in Kansa City and Illinois are booked for weeks / months. I would appreciate any input. Thanks.
 

No one shop or person is perfect.  A long time Mooney shop is no guarantee of success if the owners aren’t circulating on the shop floor teaching  and inspecting the work going on.  Reputation only gets you so far.

[Jerry 5TJ]

The last three new owner / older Mooney transitions I’ve instructed were in planes where each was inspected by a different MSC.  Each inspection had found some items and missed a few other things.  A good A&P with general aviation knowledge and reasoning ability would probably have done as well, IMO.  As @M20Doc says, it comes down to the skill of the individual who is doing the bulk of the inspection.  

[LANCECASPER]

I like using a buyer-directed pre-buy. Since I’m the one that will end up with the airplane I take on the responsibility of telling them what I’d like them to look at. This may not work for everyone. I do my research and tell the person what I want them to spend their time (my money) on. I also ask them to point out anything I might be missing. This is a look-and-see not an inspection. At any time I see a deal breaker I will end it, or at any time after I’ve seen what I want to see and I’m satisfied I’ll end it. I don’t have to be breathing down his neck but I’d like to be on premises so that I can see it for myself.

[Ragsf15e]

2 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I like using a buyer-directed pre-buy. Since I’m the one that will end up with the airplane I take on the responsibility of telling them what I’d like them to look at. This may not work for everyone. I do my research and tell the person what I want them to spend their time (my money) on. I also ask them to point out anything I might be missing. This is a look-and-see not an inspection. At any time I see a deal breaker I will end it, or at any time after I’ve seen what I want to see and I’m satisfied I’ll end it. I don’t have to be breathing down his neck but I’d like to be on premises so that I can see it for myself.

Just curious, how’s your contract if you find a deal breaker?  Are you forfeiting the deposit money?  Depending on the amount, it might be worth it to forfeit, or maybe you don’t have to because it’s an airworthy issue and the owner won’t fix it?

[LANCECASPER]

20 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Just curious, how’s your contract if you find a deal breaker?  Are you forfeiting the deposit money?  Depending on the amount, it might be worth it to forfeit, or maybe you don’t have to because it’s an airworthy issue and the owner won’t fix it?

I sent you a PM

[bmcconnaha]

On 10/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, M20Doc said:

No one shop or person is perfect.  A long time Mooney shop is no guarantee of success if the owners aren’t circulating on the shop floor teaching  and inspecting the work going on.  Reputation only gets you so far.

That’s 100 percent accurate. A well known MSC greased a brand new prop with aeroshell 6, when the sticker clearly says Nyco.  one side only.  I can only assume they saw what they were doing and fixed it for the other half, since the 6 was confined to one blade only.    I had the prop at the prop shop anyways for something else, and i had them service and reseal it, that’s when it was discovered.  The lead IA says he had no knowledge of this, and the guy who worked on my plane had been fired already for a similar instance.  So, unless the right person is supervising all work, a MSC badge, and reputation only get you so far.  

[1980Mooney]

On 10/28/2022 at 1:59 PM, chriscalandro said:

And 425 miles still isn’t a reasonable distance. 

 

On 10/28/2022 at 2:38 PM, hammdo said:

For an owner, a reasonable distance would be considered around 100 NM.  As much as I really like DMAX, that is too far without some kind of contract/money down (I would not let mine go 400 NM just for a pre-buy without a solid contract and money down - 20% or more).  A good A&P could do the pre-buy/pre-buy-annual and, talk with an MSC if requested by the buyer.  I know quite a few A&P's that are not MSC's and do a great job with the Mooney.   I'm not sure how many owners would allow a 400 NM trip with no solid contract in writing and money on the table.  On top of that, who would fly it there?  That would also require some kind of compensation too.  Seems a lot to ask for an owner to take on if there are local resources capable of doing the pre-buy.

Valid points.  Per Mike Busch:

"Third, the pre-buy needs to be done within a reasonable distance of where the aircraft is located. Few sellers will be comfortable having their aircraft flown halfway across the country for a pre-buy, and few buyers want to run up a big fuel bill ferrying an aircraft a long distance when they’re not yet sure they will be buying it. The guideline we use is that the pre-buy shop should be within one hour’s flying time from the aircraft’s home base."

EAA_2014-11_prebuy-dos-and-donts.pdf (savvyaviation.com)

[Guest]

5 hours ago, bmcconnaha said:

That’s 100 percent accurate. A well known MSC greased a brand new prop with aeroshell 6, when the sticker clearly says Nyco.  one side only.  I can only assume they saw what they were doing and fixed it for the other half, since the 6 was confined to one blade only.    I had the prop at the prop shop anyways for something else, and i had them service and reseal it, that’s when it was discovered.  The lead IA says he had no knowledge of this, and the guy who worked on my plane had been fired already for a similar instance.  So, unless the right person is supervising all work, a MSC badge, and reputation only get you so far.  

Firing the individual A&P seems harsh, when the supervisor escapes unscathed.  

[Shadrach]

Why not just download @M20Doc’s PPI list and find a local A&P that will work with you. Then take the day off an observe the examination of the aircraft you’re considering…

I can’t tell you how many times I’ve read or heard the phrase “should’ve been caught it pre-bye“. well maybe, maybe not. Pre-buy is a means of making sure that the asset will remain serviceable and does not have major defects. There may be additional items to negotiate on based on your own observations. A mechanic can only cover so much in a PPI. It’s my opinion that a lot of potential buyers have unrealistic expectations regarding a PPI. It’s a good idea to be there, especially for a 50+ year old Aircraft. Not nearly as important if you were buying a 10-year-old Acclaim. Condition of newer machines does not vary nearly as much as machines that have multiple decades of service under their belt.

[bmcconnaha]

23 hours ago, M20Doc said:

Firing the individual A&P seems harsh, when the supervisor escapes unscathed.  

Wasn’t fired because I called, and I wouldn’t have wanted that.  I was just calling to let them know that somehow half my prop was greased with the wrong grease.  Apparently he had a habit of making mistakes and covering them up. No idea, didn’t push any further.  Just wanted to let him know of my overall dissatisfaction with the whole visit.  Sent me out the door at 5pm (my fault, weather delayed my arrival) and the plane had an issue with a mag that required an overnight stay. At my expense.  Also, something was zip tied too close to the control shafts under the panel, and it was interfering with pitch control, and then finding half my prop greased incorrectly.  Not a great first annual at a MSC.  

[Sixstring2k]

On 10/29/2022 at 11:39 AM, LANCECASPER said:

I like using a buyer-directed pre-buy. Since I’m the one that will end up with the airplane I take on the responsibility of telling them what I’d like them to look at. This may not work for everyone. I do my research and tell the person what I want them to spend their time (my money) on. I also ask them to point out anything I might be missing. This is a look-and-see not an inspection. At any time I see a deal breaker I will end it, or at any time after I’ve seen what I want to see and I’m satisfied I’ll end it. I don’t have to be breathing down his neck but I’d like to be on premises so that I can see it for myself.

Would you mind sharing that contract with me as well? I went thru a prebuy that left a lot to be desired. 

[PhateX1337]

On 10/27/2022 at 9:09 PM, 0TreeLemur said:

Cole Aviation in Dalton, Georgia, is another option.   They are located about 30 nm SE of Chattanooga, TN.  They are a MSC.

Good luck!

I agree wholeheartedly. Joe just took fantastic care of me on a big annual after I was up a creek without a paddle due to AGL ownership change. I was very impressed with his honesty and transparency and communication. I’ll definitely be going back.