M20J vs M20K

[Fly Boomer]

22 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

she seems to like it,

Happy engine=happy pilot!  

[hubcap]

5 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

I often fly above 10k, the J will take longer to get there, but it will cruise 150 kts at 14k. Not as fast as a K, but quick enough to make 600 nm trips in 4 hours.

That is plenty good enough. What kind of fuel burn and what temperatures do you see?

[ArtVandelay]

That is plenty good enough. What kind of fuel burn and what temperatures do you see?

Temperatures of what?

[hubcap]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

Temperatures of what?

Cylinder head temperatures.

[ArtVandelay]

Cylinder head temperatures.

330-375 depending on outside temperatures, fuel runs about 8-9gph depending on altitude.

I run LOP.

[hubcap]

2 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

330-375 depending on outside temperatures, fuel runs about 8-9gph depending on altitude.

I run LOP.

Those are good numbers. Does it get warm during climb?

[ArtVandelay]

Those are good numbers. Does it get warm during climb?

Not if I climb at 100kts, steeper climbs it can get 400ish.

[hubcap]

10 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

Not if I climb at 100kts, steeper climbs it can get 400ish.

Same for me. I climb to 1000’ AGL at Vy and then at 105 kts with cowl flaps open.

[amillet]

3 hours ago, hubcap said:

Same for me. I climb to 1000’ AGL at Vy and then at 105 kts with cowl flaps open.

I learned at a MAPA PPP that rate of climb at 120 kts is the same as 105 kts. 

[hubcap]

1 hour ago, amillet said:

I learned at a MAPA PPP that rate of climb at 120 kts is the same as 105 kts. 

I will give that a try and report back. Heading home today and planning the trip now.

[Z W]

Can confirm - in a K model with the 252 engine, climbing at 120 KIAS at max power to cruise altitude gets you cooler engine temps, best rate of climb, and least overall fuel burn for your trip.  The increased fuel flow during climb is offset by the decreased duration of climb and increased ground speed during climb.  Plus you get out of the bumps and heat and up into the cooler, smooth air that much faster.

[gevertex]

On 7/11/2022 at 9:59 PM, William A said:

How much is it typically to rebuild/replace the m20j 200hp engine? Specifically the 1984 factory/stock engine? Prop?

I am doing one from a 90's J right now and it's running ~25AMU

[MikeOH]

1 hour ago, gevertex said:

I am doing one from a 90's J right now and it's running ~25AMU

Does that include R&R?  I would think there would be other things that need attending to, as well; hoses, oil cooler, engine mount, exhaust system, fuel servo,....

[A64Pilot]

12 hours ago, Z W said:

Can confirm - in a K model with the 252 engine, climbing at 120 KIAS at max power to cruise altitude gets you cooler engine temps, best rate of climb, and least overall fuel burn for your trip.  The increased fuel flow during climb is offset by the decreased duration of climb and increased ground speed during climb.  Plus you get out of the bumps and heat and up into the cooler, smooth air that much faster.

It’s true with any airplane, I cruise climb at about 110 kts indicated

speeds will differ of course on power available and altitude etc. 

[cwaters]

On 7/15/2022 at 6:12 PM, ArtVandelay said:

330-375 depending on outside temperatures, fuel runs about 8-9gph depending on altitude.

I run LOP.

this is typically what I see too in my 77 J maybe a bit warmer this time of year with oat nearing 100 on the ramp, but my Oil temp stays ~200 at highest and cht is ~400 at highest 

[ArtVandelay]

I learned at a MAPA PPP that rate of climb at 120 kts is the same as 105 kts. 

Not for me, I do about 700’/min vs 1000’/min.

[N201MKTurbo]

FWIW,

I made a few IFR trips across the Rockies, where the MEAs are 16000 in my NA M20F.

[geoffb]

22 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

FWIW,

I made a few IFR trips across the Rockies, where the MEAs are 16000 in my NA M20F.

yes, but the available climb performance was seriously lacking....my E would get up there but it's slow.

[geoffb]

On 7/17/2022 at 4:19 AM, Z W said:

Can confirm - in a K model with the 252 engine, climbing at 120 KIAS at max power to cruise altitude gets you cooler engine temps, best rate of climb, and least overall fuel burn for your trip.  The increased fuel flow during climb is offset by the decreased duration of climb and increased ground speed during climb.  Plus you get out of the bumps and heat and up into the cooler, smooth air that much faster.

Same here, 120 kts indicated, full power, close to 1,000 fpm up to 190 which is a high as I've been flying.  Hard to beat if you've got places to go.  But in the NW we've got mountains, high MEAs, ice lower than MEA and most of my trips are 2 hours or more.  Really, if I removed the Cascades and Siskiyous from my routes, I'd have kept the E as it was cheaper to own, easier to maintain and so much lighter.  All of this "stuff" turbos, TKS, oxygen systems, hot props just adds complexity which makes for more maintenance, more downtime, more cost.

Edited July 19, 2022 by geoffb

[N201MKTurbo]

2 hours ago, geoffb said:

yes, but the available climb performance was seriously lacking....my E would get up there but it's slow.

It was a long time ago, but I think I was still climbing at 300 FPM.

[William A]

On 7/17/2022 at 4:34 PM, gevertex said:

I am doing one from a 90's J right now and it's running ~25AMU

I’m a rookie here…what does 25AMU mean?

[201Mooniac]

an AMU is an Aviation Monetary Unit or $1,000 so 25 AMUs is $25,000

[ArtVandelay]

I am doing one from a 90's J right now and it's running ~25AMU

But there are additional costs, mine ran about 35 AMUs.
New alternator, new control cables, repaired baffling, new hoses, overhauled propeller, not to mention removing and reinstalling the engine.
I repainted the engine frame, cowl flaps mechanism and baffling…you want it to look pretty after spending that kind money. :-)

[N201MKTurbo]

On 7/17/2022 at 2:34 PM, gevertex said:

I am doing one from a 90's J right now and it's running ~25AMU

That's a good deal. I did mine myself and it was about ~20AMU

[carusoam]

13 hours ago, William A said:

I’m a rookie here…what does 25AMU mean?

I’m a rookie here as well…

Keeping prices coded in amu is a basic defense against robots and and other criminal entities…

Best to leave things without the dollar sign… and the comma…

 

And use caution with anyone you don’t know selling avionics… it may be too good to be true… 

Best regards,

-a-