M20J door seal replacement

[Robert Tanner]

Currently installed is a Bob Fields inflatable seal that is not working. I could replace it with like kind, or a non inflatable seal. Suggestions?
I tried to search this topic but the thread with 72 posts kept hanging up.
 

Thank you

Robert

[Andy95W]

I’d determine where the Fields is leaking and repair it.

Unless it is horribly torn, it is usually either a small leak that can be patched with RTV, or a bad inflation bulb, or leaking tubing- any of which can be replaced.

[carusoam]

We have the Bob fields guy around here somewhere…

And we have the door seal guy around here…

And we have the MSC network around here…

 

What do you want to do…?

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

Putting on a new door seal is easy.

Removing the old one and cleaning off all the old adhesive is a PITA!

[N201MKTurbo]

FWIW,

When I changed my door seal I removed my old one and then ordered a new one. It took a week or so to get the new one. I had a few trips to do, so I put on HD adhesive backed foam weather-strip. 

The official $200 Mooney door seal worked almost as well as the $3 weather-strip.

[A64Pilot]

Yeah, My baggage compt seal got sticky and finally ripped. It had foam inside of it?

Anyway some cheap weatherstrip I got on Amazon for my hangar doors is working fine so far, keeps the rain out anyway.

I have an inflatable door seal. I can’t tell any difference with it inflated or not, and it doesn’t leak.

Edited April 11, 2022 by A64Pilot

[Will.iam]

25 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

Yeah, My baggage compt seal got sticky and finally ripped. It had foam inside of it?

Anyway some cheap weatherstrip I got on Amazon for my hangar doors is working fine so far, keeps the rain out anyway.

I have an inflatable door seal. I can’t tell any difference with it inflated or not, and it doesn’t leak.

You should be able to tell an increase in wind noise when you deflate the seal in flight and if you put a piece of paper near the door edge it will stay there under the suction. Maybe your seal is not sealing all the gaps? It takes 4 pumps with mine to get most of the noise to stop but 5 pumps and there is no noise from the door and the sheet of paper falls away from the door. 

[Robert Tanner]

14 hours ago, carusoam said:

We have the Bob fields guy around here somewhere…

And we have the door seal guy around here…

And we have the MSC network around here…

 

What do you want to do…?

Best regards,

-a-

My thought is do I replace/repair the existing seal, or is there a better solution? Possibly OEM or aftermarket seal and adjust/re rig the door?

[LANCECASPER]

53 minutes ago, Robert Tanner said:

My thought is do I replace/repair the existing seal, or is there a better solution? Possibly OEM or aftermarket seal and adjust/re rig the door?

 

 

This subject has been discussed many, many times on Mooneyspace. Installing a new seal is the easy part, adjusting it so there are no leaks after it's once installed is the tedious part. And getting the old one off and prepping for the new seal is 80% of the job. 

If you have one installed already that at one time was placed correctly so it sealed, it is a no-brainer. Just figure out where the leak is and repair it with the RTV that they recommend.

[A64Pilot]

16 hours ago, Will.iam said:

You should be able to tell an increase in wind noise when you deflate the seal in flight and if you put a piece of paper near the door edge it will stay there under the suction. Maybe your seal is not sealing all the gaps? It takes 4 pumps with mine to get most of the noise to stop but 5 pumps and there is no noise from the door and the sheet of paper falls away from the door. 

Without it inflated there is no noise, three pumps and I can feel resistence so I’m calling that fully inflated, I don’t know how much pressure is too much.

‘I think it seals well without it being inflated as we can tell no difference, I assume some doors just fit better than others and by pure luck our door is a good fit.

[KB4]

 

[LANCECASPER]

3 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Without it inflated there is no noise, three pumps and I can feel resistence so I’m calling that fully inflated, I don’t know how much pressure is too much.

‘I think it seals well without it being inflated as we can tell no difference, I assume some doors just fit better than others and by pure luck our door is a good fit.

If you aren't hearing any difference it's probably binding somewhere. It took a few times to get mine in just the right places all the way around on the Bravo I sold in November. If you inflate in the air, you can tell very clearly by the sound, or lack thereof, when it inflates  and seals.

[A64Pilot]

It may be, but we don’t have any noise, nor drafts.

I guess we could try some tissue paper or something to see if there are drafts we can’t feel, I’d try smoke, but would likely set fire to something with my luck

[Will.iam]

3 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Without it inflated there is no noise, three pumps and I can feel resistence so I’m calling that fully inflated, I don’t know how much pressure is too much.

‘I think it seals well without it being inflated as we can tell no difference, I assume some doors just fit better than others and by pure luck our door is a good fit.

Try the paper test. It will suck to the door and frame. As far as too much pressure my bulb gets really stiff to squeeze on pump 5. There is a noticeable difference. 

Edited April 12, 2022 by Will.iam
Still =Stiff stupid autocorrect.

[A64Pilot]

I was afraid to pump too hard, when I got the airplane the hose and bulb were dry rotted, but the seal is fine. Amazon got me a bulb and hose.

$10 on Amazon aircraft parts site

 

[carusoam]

Leaky doors are a bit tough to figure out…

often, the air is being drawn out of the plane through the door leak…

Making it only a problem in the chilly winter at 10k’… 

A bigger problem if you sit in the back…

The tradition of finding the leak is using the paper… it vacuums itself to the cabin wall.

 

PP thoughts only,

-a-

[Tx_Aggie]

I’m in the same boat.  Mine came with a panel mounted mechanical on/off valve. It was disconnected during the first annual and the bulb/tubing connected to the door afterwards. I’ve chased a leak in pressure at altitude ever since. Works great when it’s inflated, but I’m chasing a slow leak ever since. Is the bulb pump valve like a check valve? Two annuals later with pressure tests at all points and confirming the leak fixed, it still bleeds pressure… any thoughts?

Edited April 15, 2022 by Tx_Aggie

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, Tx_Aggie said:

I’m in the same boat.  Mine came with a panel mounted mechanical on/off valve. It was disconnected during the first annual and the bulb/tubing connected to the door afterwards. I’ve chased a leak in pressure at altitude ever since. Works great when it’s inflated, but I’m chasing a slow leak ever since. Is the bulb pump valve like a check valve? Two annuals later with pressure tests at all points and confirming the leak fixed, it still bleeds pressure… any thoughts?

Talk to @tomgo2. He owns the STC

[A64Pilot]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:05 PM, Tx_Aggie said:

I’m in the same boat.  Mine came with a panel mounted mechanical on/off valve. It was disconnected during the first annual and the bulb/tubing connected to the door afterwards. I’ve chased a leak in pressure at altitude ever since. Works great when it’s inflated, but I’m chasing a slow leak ever since. Is the bulb pump valve like a check valve? Two annuals later with pressure tests at all points and confirming the leak fixed, it still bleeds pressure… any thoughts?

Yes the bulb has a check valve, I think two actually, but if I understand it’s operating principle, the screw you close is after both check valves so even if they leaked, there should be no pressure loss.

I’d drop $10 and put a new bulb on to see if it fixes the problem, if it doesn’t your only out $10.

Edited April 20, 2022 by A64Pilot

[tomgo2]

If you have the panel mounted pneumatic toggle valve, I would recommend replacement. Alternatively, try pinching off the air pressure down stream of the toggle valve and see if it holds. This will verify if it is the toggle valve.

[carusoam]

On 4/15/2022 at 12:05 PM, Tx_Aggie said:

I’m in the same boat.  Mine came with a panel mounted mechanical on/off valve. It was disconnected during the first annual and the bulb/tubing connected to the door afterwards. I’ve chased a leak in pressure at altitude ever since. Works great when it’s inflated, but I’m chasing a slow leak ever since. Is the bulb pump valve like a check valve? Two annuals later with pressure tests at all points and confirming the leak fixed, it still bleeds pressure… any thoughts?

Tx_Aggie,  meet tomgo2….

He is our Bob Fields guy…

 

Best regards,

-a-