Recommendations for O2 systems and use, please.

[garytex]

I notice that I get the stupids at relatively lower altitudes these days, noticeable at 12000 ft, and my new magic carpet gets me up there so much faster that I'm considering one of the portable O2 systems.  Which system seems to be the way to go?  I've seen the ads; canulas, mustashes, masks, mizers, there seem to be plenty of options, and reasonably priced.  Does O2 seem to help with the stupids?  I'm thinking most of my use will be around 12,000, with occasional forays maybe to 15 to catch a really special tailwind.  In other words, not very frequent use.

 

Thanks, Gary

[Swingin]

I like the Aerox system.  Their cannulas are supposed to be very efficient, and you can fine tune each one for altitude.

I live at 4,500' and spend time hiking/skiing each year well above 12K', but I still go on supplemental O2 for flying above 10K' or so, even lower if it's a longer flight.  Not because I get hypoxic specifically, but I find that if I don't I'm a little tired for the rest of the day.  It's cheap and easy, so why not.

I think I ordered mine through Aircraftspruce.com, but that's probably not the only place.  Google Aerox for more info.

[SkyPilot]

I've got a Nelson 2 place with a 22 cu ft tank. The flowmeters are easy to understand you just adjust the black ball to the altitude you are flying at and it gives you the correct O2 flow for that altitude. I've got the nice bag that straps onto my seat-back. I have to get the refil hose they manufacture so I can refil the bottle at home from a large cylinder. Industrial cylinders are 2200 psi and so is the full mark on my bottle. Refilling is a huge pain otherwise. The nearest refil station is 3 hours drive away.

[GeorgePerry]

Quote: garytex

I notice that I get the stupids at relatively lower altitudes these days, noticeable at 12000 ft, and my new magic carpet gets me up there so much faster that I'm considering one of the portable O2 systems.  Which system seems to be the way to go?  I've seen the ads; canulas, mustashes, masks, mizers, there seem to be plenty of options, and reasonably priced.  Does O2 seem to help with the stupids?  I'm thinking most of my use will be around 12,000, with occasional forays maybe to 15 to catch a really special tailwind.  In other words, not very frequent use.

 

Thanks, Gary

[johnggreen]

My Bravo has a built in system, but I have a few points to make.

First, George is right about time aloft.  Even at relatively low altitudes, the lower ox content begins to work on you.

Secondly, after using oxygen extensively and monitoring my blood ox levels with a meter, I know how the altitude personally affects me.  I need at least 92% blood oxygen content to really stay alert and depending upon your personal physiology, that may come at relatively low altitudes.  I am 62 but exercise vigorously.  My resting heart rate is only 56 bpm.  But, I have a pretty seriously deviated septum from one or another "altercations" in younger days, so breathing through my nose at altitude isn't as efficient as it once was.

I put on oxygen at anything over 8,000' if I'm going to be there over an hour or so or if I'm flying real IFR.  At night, it goes on at 6,000' to enhance my night vision.  If you will buy and use a blood oxygen meter, you will learn a lot about your personal needs.  By the way, you can find a meter on an exercise site for a fraction of what you will on an aviation store site.

The comment about filling your own bottle is dead on.  Buy the hoses and valves and fill your own.  It will cost about $35/year to rent a tank and about $35 each time you swap for a new tank.  Otherwise the hassle of a filling station will make you forget the whole idea.

Finally, I have the Aerox oxsaver cannulas and they work.  You can meter your oxygen to what you need and cut your rate of use by well over 50%.

Jgreen

[rainman]

I just think this needs to be said about hypoxia.  Get a cheap, reliable, very small pulse oximeter ($35 or less) and monitor your oxygenation levels. You may find that your levels are below 90% at lower altitudes than you had anticipated. The idea that you will turn on the oxygen at a specific altitude or when you "feel stupid" is probably not the safest way to approach the problem. As a skydiver with several thousand trips in unpressurized aircraft above 13,000-15,000 feet, I can tell you that there is tremendous individual variation in hypoxia reactions at the same altitude. I use the Oximeter Plus by Oxi-Go, it's barely larger than the end of my finger. I can't recall, but I may have gotten it at Sporty's on-line.  Ray

[rainman]

I just think this needs to be said about hypoxia.  Get a cheap, reliable, very small pulse oximeter ($35 or less) and monitor your oxygenation levels. You may find that your levels are below 90% at lower altitudes than you had anticipated. The idea that you will turn on the oxygen at a specific altitude or when you "feel stupid" is probably not the safest way to approach the problem. As a skydiver with several thousand trips in unpressurized aircraft above 13,000-15,000 feet, I can tell you that there is tremendous individual variation in hypoxia reactions at the same altitude. I use the Oximeter Plus by Oxi-Go, it's barely larger than the end of my finger. I can't recall, but I may have gotten it at Sporty's on-line.  Ray

[garytex]

Johngreen, you Jack La Lane you, 56 beats a minute!  Which marathons did you say you ran?

Swingin:  Yes I'v noticed that feeling of tiredness, and even sometimes a lingering headache.

It sounds like the size to buy is one that would cover a couple of round trips, to obviate the refill hassle.  In my younger days I kept a full air cascade system for filling scuba bottles (south texas, in the 1970's, long way to dive shops) so the self refill seems natural.  

Skypilot, I like the dial up the altitude feature regulator mentioned, and wondered about that.  If you need O2, how could you multiply flow times altitude reliably?

GeorgePerry, We haven't seen your brother Rick for around here lately.  I spose he'll be back.  Even those of us who like him are a little embarrassed by the "Somewhere in Texas, a village is missing its idiot" impression he has been making.

All: Seriously, thanks for all the advise.  I have a Pulse oximeter, but didn't do much with it, as I had no cure for the reading.  I'll start paying attention.

 

Gary

[SkyPilot]

Quote: garytex

Skypilot, I like the dial up the altitude feature regulator mentioned, and wondered about that.  If you need O2, how could you multiply flow times altitude reliably?

Gary

[ghovey]

Get a decent size bottle and don't be afraid of using it. And if you fly really high bring a back up, why? Last summer at 17000 ifr my built in o2 system had a total failure, no problem just descend, except I was flying from Sw Colorado to South Dakota and had not cleared the rockies and there wasn't a great low altitude solution due to granite. I did have a back up, I never thought I would use it for that reason. 

[garytex]

ghovey:  22 cubic feet about right?

17000 ft IFR Rockies O2 failure?  Did you know when it failed, or notice you were passing out?  

None of that for me, please.

[ghovey]

I noticed it was failing as I watched the pressure go From 1100 to 0 in about 5 minutes and yes I did begin going down 

[aviatoreb]

Quote: garytex

ghovey:  22 cubic feet about right?

17000 ft IFR Rockies O2 failure?  Did you know when it failed, or notice you were passing out?  

None of that for me, please.

[ghovey]

22 cubic feet should be good with a cannula and a flow meter.  It is really helpful to be able to dial in the altitude and have it set the quantity/volume for you. It will last much longer.  if you are going to have 3 or more folks using it then you need a bigger tank. 

[ghovey]

22 cubic feet should be good with a cannula and a flow meter.  It is really helpful to be able to dial in the altitude and have it set the quantity/volume for you. It will last much longer.  if you are going to have 3 or more folks using it then you need a bigger tank. 

[garytex]

avaitoreb:  The demand regulator sounds useful, puff, puf, puff.

ghovey:      It would usually be just me, but occasionally my wife and son also.   I will have to ponder.  Maybe best to let the 13 yr old son fall asleep in the back below 12,000, rather than hyping him up.

Thank you both for your input, this is exactly the type of info I had hoped to hear.

Gary

[MARZ]

I've been looking into oxygen systems as well but will be going for individual bottles in lieu of a single.

the D bottle is 13 cubic feet and will provide 14 man hours as opposed to 24 cubic ft and 26 man hours for an E bottle. 

Benefits are individual adjustment of flow per person - you can bring or leave behind a bottle or two.

You can get four individual bottle, regulator and oxymizer cannulas from a medical outlet for far less than a single bottle four place setup from aerox or nelson or skyox.  

[KSMooniac]

I'm very happy with my Precise Flight system that has one of their mechanical conserver stations, plus 3 regular stations for use with a canula or mask.  The mechanical conserver is a GREAT addition to really save the O2, and functions like the Mountain High O2D2, except it doesn't need batteries.  I would recommend going with one or the other... and of course use the pulse oximeter and adjust your flow as needed so that you don't waste it.

I don't use it enough for the self-fill route, but wouldn't hesitate to set up such a rig if I were climbing up high frequently (ie with a turbo).  Instead, I've got a standing Rx from my AME to get refills at the local home health care outlet and it costs me only $15 or $20.  That might be an option for you as well.

[SkyPilot]

Quote: KSMooniac

I'm very happy with my Precise Flight system that has one of their mechanical conserver stations, plus 3 regular stations for use with a canula or mask.  The mechanical conserver is a GREAT addition to really save the O2, and functions like the Mountain High O2D2, except it doesn't need batteries.  I would recommend going with one or the other... and of course use the pulse oximeter and adjust your flow as needed so that you don't waste it.

I don't use it enough for the self-fill route, but wouldn't hesitate to set up such a rig if I were climbing up high frequently (ie with a turbo).  Instead, I've got a standing Rx from my AME to get refills at the local home health care outlet and it costs me only $15 or $20.  That might be an option for you as well.

[garytex]

Once again, thanks for all the good additional info.

Gary

[aviatoreb]

Quote: KSMooniac

I'm very happy with my Precise Flight system that has one of their mechanical conserver stations, plus 3 regular stations for use with a canula or mask.  The mechanical conserver is a GREAT addition to really save the O2, and functions like the Mountain High O2D2, except it doesn't need batteries.  I would recommend going with one or the other... and of course use the pulse oximeter and adjust your flow as needed so that you don't waste it.

I don't use it enough for the self-fill route, but wouldn't hesitate to set up such a rig if I were climbing up high frequently (ie with a turbo).  Instead, I've got a standing Rx from my AME to get refills at the local home health care outlet and it costs me only $15 or $20.  That might be an option for you as well.

[KSMooniac]

The Precise Flight PreciseFlow mechanical conserver uses a small canula (or mask) without the big mustache thingy hanging under your nose.    It is quite comfortable and non-obtrusive IMO. 

The O2D2 product is also very good from everything I've read, and provides an equivalent function.  Either of these are far superior to the standard oxy-saver type canulas.

[aviatoreb]

I learned something interesting regarding the difference between welders oxygen, medical oxygen and aviation oxygen yesterday.

I take my portable 22CF bottle to a gas supply outlet for a large regional company.  The outlet store has mostly welding equipment in the store front but it is part of a larger company that distributes all sorts of gas in metal cylinders.  They have medical O2 and welders O2 at the store there and they ship my bottle to Syracuse to the company center where they have an aviation O2 filler.  Typically the medical stores and hospitals well either receive a filler medical cylinder from this company, or otherwise they will receive bottles to fill.  So I am lucky that this outlet store is maybe 10 mi from my house.

I had a discussion with them as to the difference between the various grades.  They said primarily aviation O2 has a much lower water (humidity) content whereas medical O2 is specifically mixed to have a certain amount of humity in it for more comfort.  The reason for low humity in aviation O2 is to prevent freezing of the O2 in the lines.  The reason is that there is only one grade of aviation O2.  The guy says that they even get shipments of many very very large O2 bottles from Burlington from the airlines.  What that means is when a 727 wants to fill its bottles which may be stored in a cargo area, and that airplane may fly up at say FL43 in the winter, at say -60C up there, well you need a carefully regulated allowable water content in the O2 to prevent freezing in those lines.  But since there is only one aviation standard, maybe we do not need that in our Moonys flying at FL20, especially if your bottle is sitting in the cabin with you behind your seat.  I do live in a cold climate and ground level temps can go down to -35C on record setting nights (not this year!) but the fact is I do not typically go flying below say -20C since it is just too unpleasant the process of pulling the airplane out of the hangar and preflighting when it is much colder.  So call the lowest OAT I will likely see to be ~-40C.  Furthermore, the bottle sits in the cabin with me and I have excellent cabin heating with the rocket conversion, so cabin temps are much much warmer. 

So, I went ahead and had them fill with medical O2.  I figure that besides the convenience that they would fill right there while I waited 5 min instead of shipping it out and having to come back in a week, that the extra moisture is good for the soft tissue in the nose, and the lungs, etc.  I do think that I will pay attention to not leaving my bottle in the airplane overnight before a flight in case it is an extra frigid night before a flight.   I usually check the airplane and runway conditions the evening before a flight in the winter anyway, so now besides ensuring the engine is plugged in, retrieving my headset to warm it up, I will retrieve my bottle.

 

[AlexR]

Don't know if it is true, but according to Aviation Consumer...there is really only one grade of Oxygen which is low humidity.  I all come from the same sources in the same tanker trucks.  Per Aviation Consumer, medical oxygen is humidified at the hospital by passing the oxygen through water.   They say welders, aviation, and medical are all the same and can be used....for what its worth.

[aviatoreb]

Quote: AlexR

Don't know if it is true, but according to Aviation Consumer...there is really only one grade of Oxygen which is low humidity.  I all come from the same sources in the same tanker trucks.  Per Aviation Consumer, medical oxygen is humidified at the hospital by passing the oxygen through water.   They say welders, aviation, and medical are all the same and can be used....for what its worth.