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DoctorEvil

By DoctorEvil
in General Mooney Talk

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DoctorEvil Rookie

DoctorEvil

Posted
Posted

Just wondering if there is any news on the Mooney factory being sold/bought or taken out of zombie-mode?

it’s all been quite on the topic for a while, so hoped others might have some info. Hopefully positive of course :-]
 

cheers

201Steve Veteran

201Steve

Posted
Posted

No rumors, no excitement, no suitors, no words, no nothing. Biz quest is our only source for information unless you work for Jonny Ventures and sit in on the board meetings. 

  • Like 1
mstephenson51 Apprentice

mstephenson51

Posted
Posted

Maybe we get some of us together and buy it!  half serious.  Im an aero engineer and pretty experienced leading small manufacturing companies.  I am sure that with some of the great folks here we could turn that much beloved company around and chase down Cirrus.

Kmac Rising Star

Kmac

Posted
Posted

I don't think the future of light aircraft is in higher performance, more complex and more expensive airplanes.  The main reason that so many M20C's, early Bonanza's, and Cessna 172's were sold is because of simplicity.  I'd rather buy a new M20B at $500k than a new M20R/U/V... I am assuming many pilots prefer not to deal with oxygen, IFR, turbos, deicing, etc. 

 

hammdo Grand Master

hammdo

Posted
Posted

The problem is the current Mooney manufacturing is very 'manual/hand built'. The roll cage assembly is not automated. The composite M10 looked to be a good step but never came through. I'd start up with that and forget the current hand built models.

https://www.flyingmag.com/photo-gallery-photos-mooney-m10/

https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft-pistons-mooney-launches-diesel-powered-m10-two-seater/

How about an M10 homebuilt?

$500k for an entry aircraft? When I looked at the 1961 Mooney price and compared that with what it would be in todays dollars (that was in 2019) if was $169k. I think that is why homebuilt aircraft are now leading new registrations. The manufacture process would need to be highly automated and I'm guessing lots of $. For about 150 new units a year, that doesn't seem like Mooney could survive. I would guess at least a 30% profit per unit would need to happen. GA is surviving with older aircraft and a lot of home builders. I'd like to see aircraft > 45 years old in a new classification and allowed to use experimental equipment. I guess one could move their aircraft into an experimental class but insurance may be another issue.

On another note, a Johnson bar C model for entry and J model would be great but that is what 'we' current Mooney folks want. I'm not sure that is what the current 'younger' wannabe pilots want.

Right now, Mooney should get their parts side stronger to support the current fleet. If not, we will need a strong O.P.P (Owner Produced Parts) group to work with (like @Sabremech et.al.). I think we current owners should support O.P.P if Mooney is unable to make more parts available (right now, that is looking more likely with the business up for sale again).

I hate to say this but, the Mooneys we love (in their current manufacturing process) are not viable in todays market.

Just my .02...

-Don

mstephenson51 Apprentice

mstephenson51

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, hammdo said:

The problem is the current Mooney manufacturing is very 'manual/hand built'. The roll cage assembly is not automated. The composite M10 looked to be a good step but never came through. I'd start up with that and forget the current hand built models.

https://www.flyingmag.com/photo-gallery-photos-mooney-m10/

https://www.flyingmag.com/aircraft-pistons-mooney-launches-diesel-powered-m10-two-seater/

How about an M10 homebuilt?

$500k for an entry aircraft? When I looked at the 1961 Mooney price and compared that with what it would be in todays dollars (that was in 2019) if was $169k. I think that is why homebuilt aircraft are now leading new registrations. The manufacture process would need to be highly automated and I'm guessing lots of $. For about 150 new units a year, that doesn't seem like Mooney could survive. I would guess at least a 30% profit per unit would need to happen. GA is surviving with older aircraft and a lot of home builders. I'd like to see aircraft > 45 years old in a new classification and allowed to use experimental equipment. I guess one could move their aircraft into an experimental class but insurance may be another issue.

On another note, a Johnson bar C model for entry and J model would be great but that is what 'we' current Mooney folks want. I'm not sure that is what the current 'younger' wannabe pilots want.

Right now, Mooney should get their parts side stronger to support the current fleet. If not, we will need a strong O.P.P (Owner Produced Parts) group to work with (like @Sabremech et.al.). I think we current owners should support O.P.P if Mooney is unable to make more parts available (right now, that is looking more likely with the business up for sale again).

I hate to say this but, the Mooneys we love (in their current manufacturing process) are not viable in todays market.

Just my .02...

-Don

Yeah I agree that they have to modernize to be competitive.  The old way mooney made them just isn't good enough any more.  Seems like the path forward would be to:  keep producing old model parts, revamp processes to make a new mooney more profitable, and then maybe add a new fixed gear entry level trainer.  I mean, Mooney had good ideas.  The M20 line is a great plane but shit business.  The TBM is really their idea.  The B/C johnson bar was a great idea....   Anyway.  Dreams and ideas.

Danb Grand Master

Danb

Posted
Posted
20 hours ago, Kmac said:

I don't think the future of light aircraft is in higher performance, more complex and more expensive airplanes.  The main reason that so many M20C's, early Bonanza's, and Cessna 172's were sold is because of simplicity.  I'd rather buy a new M20B at $500k than a new M20R/U/V... I am assuming many pilots prefer not to deal with oxygen, IFR, turbos, deicing, etc. 

 

Depends on your mission, those of us that travel like or need, oxygen, IFR etc. 

exM20K Veteran

exM20K

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, 1980Mooney said:

When Jonny Pollack was announced a year and a half ago as the new CEO I thought he had quit his private equity job as co-CEO at activist investor (or "doomsday investor" as some call it) Elliot Management and was going to devote his funds and passion full time into Mooney.  But no - he remains busy at Elliott Management - his full time job. (and Elliott Management are very busy stalking a number of large companies - and be clear Elliott Management has no tie, no investment, no interest whatsoever in Mooney)  At best Mooney is a hobby to Pollack.

I'm pretty sure you have the wrong Jonathan Pollack, and it's not obvious that the online listing, which I agree is garbage, came from Mooney.  Many of these are stitched together from slide decks made for serious presentations by some yoyo trying to insert themselves in the middle of a transaction.  

-dan

Edited by exM20K
carusoam Grand Master

carusoam

Posted
Posted
On 3/6/2022 at 1:18 PM, Kmac said:

 I'd rather buy a new M20B at $500k than a new M20R/U/V... I am assuming many pilots prefer not to deal with oxygen, IFR, turbos, deicing, etc. 

 

Don’t count out the higher performance of the LBs….

The O2, and turbos, and anti ice… are all good…

My lack of interest in them… stems from their ability to work at all times, without fail….

Their mechanical failures without a decent warning/annunciation makes them less interesting…

 

The IR has become infinitely more interesting with moving maps and WAAS accuracy… no more following needles that could be pointing 180° backwards with an accidental twist of a knob…. Or not knowing exactly how far from the next waypoint you are…

 

Soooo…. While You are re-building the Mooney airplane factory… consider the Ovation as a more modern M20C…. Better performing because it got a few decades of extra development… the big difference is an extra few hundred pounds of aluminum…. :)
 

I still like the turbine option… turbines have a nicer ability to keep running…. And fail a lot less often…

How did Lancair get pressurization to work in such a small four seat plane?

An Ovation PT would be edgy….   :)
 

Best regards,

-a-

  • Thanks 1
1980Mooney Grand Master

1980Mooney

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, exM20K said:

I'm pretty sure you have the wrong Jonathan Pollack, and it's not obvious that the online listing, which I agree is garbage, came from Mooney.  Many of these are stitched together from slide decks made for serious presentations by some yoyo trying to insert themselves in the middle of a transaction.  

-dan

You may be right that I have conflated 2 Jonathan Scott Pollack's living in the Northeast into one.  But what I do know is that Mooney's Jonathan Scott Pollack is educated as an attorney and owns N705SE.  He is Instrument Rated.  His pilot license, aircraft registration and law license all show 129 E 82ND ST # 3A, New York, New York as the address.  

FlightAware shows that N705SE is based at Great Barrington Airport (KGBR) in Massachusetts near the New York state border.  It also shows that the plane has made one trip to Kerrville in the last 3 months.  It arrived in Kerrville on Jan. 10, 2022.  It appears to have then made trips to Corpus Christi and San Antonio and returned to Kerrville.  It departed Kerrville for KGBR on January 22.

It is still "Crickets"

20211028_135739.jpg

  • 4 weeks later...
1980Mooney Grand Master

1980Mooney

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 3/5/2022 at 3:59 PM, toto said:

Haven’t heard anything new or recent on MS. The “for sale” sign is still up:

https://www.bizquest.com/business-for-sale/legendary-aircraft-manufacturer/BW1902593/
 

Jonny hasn’t been around in a while, though he did provide early updates about no-back spring availability and work on a carbon cowl. Those initiatives seem to have stalled a bit. 

That lame bizquest "Mooney for sale" advert has been taken down. - This is not an April Fools joke.  The link no longer works.

Given up or found a buyer?....  The Kerrville based MSer's would know if people have been coming in and "kicking tires".     My money is on given up, however Jonny has been traveling to Kerrville more regularly and is there now.

Edited by 1980Mooney
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