FAA and medications

[DonMuncy]

As I may have mentioned in an earlier post, my granddaughter is interested in a career in aviation. She started the process and got to the medical stuff. It seems that some time ago she took some kind of an online quiz thing that suggested she might have ADD. She told her doctor, and he (knowing there is not definitive test for ADD) gave her a prescription foe Adderall. She thought it helped her to focus better and her grades reportedly improved. 

When she applied for her medical, she reported  that she was taking it, and naturally they denied her medical. My cursory look at the situation indicates that once she admitted taking that drug, she is likely stuck for life with the possibility of only getting ongoing special issuances.

Has anyone been here before? From what I have read, there are AMEs who will just send in papers, and others who "got to bat" for an applicant. Does anyone know an AME in the Denver area who is really interested in helping someone get over this type hurdle? 

[toto]

Honestly, this feels like a question for Bruce Chien.  He has been an amazing resource for a lot of pilots and potential pilots with tricky medical issues.  I don't have first-hand experience with him, but I have very close second-hand experience and he's been a life saver.

https://pic.aopa.org/profile/11562

 

[ArtVandelay]

On POA (medical topics forum), Dr. Chien answers questions like these, check this out:

https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/add-questions.85996/#post-1892265

[jaylw314]

48 minutes ago, DonMuncy said:

As I may have mentioned in an earlier post, my granddaughter is interested in a career in aviation. She started the process and got to the medical stuff. It seems that some time ago she took some kind of an online quiz thing that suggested she might have ADD. She told her doctor, and he (knowing there is not definitive test for ADD) gave her a prescription foe Adderall. She thought it helped her to focus better and her grades reportedly improved. 

When she applied for her medical, she reported  that she was taking it, and naturally they denied her medical. My cursory look at the situation indicates that once she admitted taking that drug, she is likely stuck for life with the possibility of only getting ongoing special issuances.

Has anyone been here before? From what I have read, there are AMEs who will just send in papers, and others who "got to bat" for an applicant. Does anyone know an AME in the Denver area who is really interested in helping someone get over this type hurdle? 

If she's still taking psychostimulant medication and/or plans to continue, that's pretty much an automatic disqualifying medication for any class medical.  I think I recall seeing that in the FAA guidance for AME's somewhere.

The diagnosis of ADHD should not by itself automatically be disqualifying (unless the condition is actually impairing enough to prevent flying), so If she stops it or plans to stop medication in the future, I don't think that would technically result in her requiring special issuances forever.  Those are reserved for people with "psychosis, bipolar disorder, repeated acts of self-harm or severe personality disorders" IIRC.  On the other hand, I could totally see an AME interpreting it that way, but hopefully not all of them.

And, of course, the disclaimer is I'm not an AME, but I know we have couple here somewhere?

[Vance Harral]

Your best bet is to discuss this with Bruce Chien, as others have indicated.  You don't need to join another message board to do so, and in fact that's not really the best approach anyway, as he gets so many questions that his answers on those venues are understandably clipped.  Suggest you contact him directly via http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/ and offer to pay for an hour of his time as a consultant.

 

[KB4]

1 hour ago, jaylw314 said:

If she's still taking psychostimulant medication and/or plans to continue

That’s it in a nutshell. Stop the meds. Get homeopathic equivalent if needed, and it’s no longer an issue. 

[carusoam]

+1 for checking in with AOPA…

They have a really good system for handling some of the usual medications people have run into challenges with…

They have long lists of acceptable and non-acceptable meds… and how long one needs to be off them…

 

Then go to Dr. Chien fully armed with knowledge…

Expect there are Millions of people that have been down this particular road before…

 

No matter how tough the road gets…. Don’t give up!

 

MS has pilots that fly with diabetes, one eye, cognitive challenges, and other disabilities…

 

Good luck with the next steps…

Best regards,

-a-

[hammdo]

Amen to that!

-Don

[LANCECASPER]

On 1/11/2022 at 4:13 PM, DonMuncy said:

As I may have mentioned in an earlier post, my granddaughter is interested in a career in aviation. She started the process and got to the medical stuff. It seems that some time ago she took some kind of an online quiz thing that suggested she might have ADD. She told her doctor, and he (knowing there is not definitive test for ADD) gave her a prescription foe Adderall. She thought it helped her to focus better and her grades reportedly improved. 

There's only one difference between her and the rest of us . . .   we haven't been diagnosed or prescribed yet 

(Example: @carusoam has over 39,000 posts on Mooneyspace. The rest of us only aspire to his level of ADD)

[M20F-1968]

On 1/11/2022 at 5:13 PM, DonMuncy said:

As I may have mentioned in an earlier post, my granddaughter is interested in a career in aviation. She started the process and got to the medical stuff. It seems that some time ago she took some kind of an online quiz thing that suggested she might have ADD. She told her doctor, and he (knowing there is not definitive test for ADD) gave her a prescription foe Adderall. She thought it helped her to focus better and her grades reportedly improved. 

When she applied for her medical, she reported  that she was taking it, and naturally they denied her medical. My cursory look at the situation indicates that once she admitted taking that drug, she is likely stuck for life with the possibility of only getting ongoing special issuances.

Has anyone been here before? From what I have read, there are AMEs who will just send in papers, and others who "got to bat" for an applicant. Does anyone know an AME in the Denver area who is really interested in helping someone get over this type hurdle? 

Don,

As you likely know I am a senior AMEA and have some experience in this matter.   I once had a pilot who came to me who is taking Adderall prescribed to him by his primary care physician.   He took it occasionally because  he was a businessman and attended 12 hour business meetings.   The fact that he was on the medication necessitated my indicating that to the FAA.   They in turn put him  through about $3000 of psychiatric  testing,  determined he did not have ADHD,  he stopped the medication and got his medical.

 The  FAA flight surgeon I discussed this with told me the following story  about military pilots applying stealth bombers.  There  are two pilots, one sleeps, and one flies.   The one flies flies takes a  stimulant medication.   The FAA  uses the medication list  has a hint to what might be going on medically with the patient.   In this guys case,  he did not have a diagnosis and really shouldn't of been taking the medication all.   He stopped it  and the problem was solved.   Your granddaughter  may do well off the medication but is certainly worth pursuing with an AME who will help her through the process.   I  do this for many of the  airman  I see,  can also do it as a primary care physician.   It's all about  taking the person from where they are,  to where they need and want to be,  and providing them the tools necessary for the journey.   If I can help give me a call  or PM me here.  My  cell phone is  (617) 877-0025.

John Breda

[GeeBee]

As someone who had a child with severe ADD, I have found the diagnosis is difficult and requires substantial, costly and careful medical work up. I have seen schools who in conjunction with a local physician simply designate a child as ADD or ADHD and bam! The poor kid is on Ritalin or Adderall. In my state there was a county where 40% of the kids were on medication, largely as a result of the education establishment and a local quack. I wish the medical community would tend the gate much tighter and the standard of care to prescribe the medications was much tighter.

M20F-1968, you did your patient a real solid and you are to be commended for being a caring and concerned physician of the first order. 

[201Steve]

8 hours ago, GeeBee said:

I have seen schools who in conjunction with a local physician simply designate a child as ADD or ADHD and bam! The poor kid is on Ritalin or Adderall. In my state there was a county where 40% of the kids were on medication, largely as a result of the education establishment and a local quack.

Not to change the subject- it’s definitely a much more serious matter than most give it credit for. I’m not saying it has no use, but we are talking about young kids and a bonafide high power narcotic. High power. 

[rbp]

19 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Not to change the subject- it’s definitely a much more serious matter than most give it credit for. I’m not saying it has no use, but we are talking about young kids and a bonafide high power narcotic. High power. 

ritalin and aderall are not narcotics. they are amphetamines. same "go" pills the USAF and NASA have been giving to pilots for decades. https://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030103-speed01.htm 

[jaylw314]

19 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Not to change the subject- it’s definitely a much more serious matter than most give it credit for. I’m not saying it has no use, but we are talking about young kids and a bonafide high power narcotic. High power. 

 

14 minutes ago, rbp said:

ritalin and aderall are not narcotics. they are amphetamines. same "go" pills the USAF and NASA have been giving to pilots for decades. https://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030103-speed01.htm 

"Narcotic" originally was a term used for substances that caused sedation (narcosis) like opioids, but these days "narcotics" has become the catch-all term for any illegal or DEA controlled substance, especially as we've broken out other categories of controlled substances like sedative/hypnotics from opioids.  I agree it's not a particularly accurate term, though.

[rbp]

that may be so, but these drugs are not narcotic

[LANCECASPER]

Can we agree on "controlled substance"?

[rbp]

19 hours ago, 201Steve said:

Not to change the subject- it’s definitely a much more serious matter than most give it credit for. I’m not saying it has no use, but we are talking about young kids and a bonafide high power narcotic. High power. 

honestly, @LANCECASPER I found this whole comment to be uninformed

[LANCECASPER]

Thankfully for all of us, we're all entitled to our own opinion on every subject. 

[carusoam]

58 minutes ago, rbp said:

honestly, @LANCECASPER I found this whole comment to be uninformed

It’s possible an MSer has used an inappropriate term to describe a strong medication…

To keep MooneySpace an open conversation…. There are good ways to add corrections to what an uninformed person may have written…

 

The objective is to keep everyone coming back…

 

Or else we would need a disclaimer after everything we have written…

PP thoughts only, not a doctor, lawyer, mechanic, pro writer, customer service agent, or CFI, or CFII….

Some people have difficulty sharing their name…how are we going to get their tech background?

Best regards,

-a-

[201Steve]

We have these locals in my town, been living here for decades. Some of the main roads have been renamed over the years and they lose their minds when you call it what it's been changed to. Nobody is trying to take away your meds rbp. And no one is suggesting the military should or shouldn't use them. We get it- your a pharmacist.

Apologies to Don Muncy for contributing to this completely irrelevant thread drift.

[DonMuncy]

24 minutes ago, 201Steve said:

Apologies to Don Muncy for contributing to this completely irrelevant thread drift.

Not a problem to me at all. I appreciate everyone's help.

[rbp]

@DonMuncy I have a lot of experience with these treatments and with ADHD. Please DM me if you'd like to discuss as this seems to have devolved.