Mooney down in Washington state

[bmcconnaha]

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/small-plane-lost-outside-north-bend/4UE376O2FBFHVNTSJLQYRWH7OE/
 

friend flying in the area in a jet said they were picking up tons of ice.  Heard the guy in the mooney climbing to FL19.  
 

anyone else heard anything else?

[Ragsf15e]

Sheesh, I flew right over there twice this morning  (not in my Mooney) in my work airplane.  I got ice both ways, but its definitely not the worst I’ve seen.  Definitely no worse than moderate. Maybe from 10,000’ to 18,000’ or so.  Was really windy and bumpy down low.

Was the airplane equipped with tks??

Edited October 29, 2021 by Ragsf15e

[Ragsf15e]

Looks like a Bravo, N40KA from flightaware.  Longtime registered to an llc.  Here’s the flight path, doesn’t look good.

[exM20K]

Yes on the TKS.  Dunno about FIKI.

[exM20K]

I’ve flown all over the USA, and for what it’s worth, the worst ice I I’ve got was proceeding eastbound out of the Seattle area this time of year.  Very sorry for the loss of life.

-dan

[Ragsf15e]

3 minutes ago, exM20K said:

I’ve flown all over the USA, and for what it’s worth, the worst ice I I’ve got was proceeding eastbound out of the Seattle area this time of year.  Very sorry for the loss of life.

-dan

Agree with both.  There can be lots of ice and I’m saddened by the loss.

[Ragsf15e]

Is anyone real good with atc audio and can post a link?  I’d be interested to see what was said to cause the multiple turns/climbs in imc.

[bmcconnaha]

8 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Is anyone real good with atc audio and can post a link?  I’d be interested to see what was said to cause the multiple turns/climbs in imc.

Yes, the flight aware track is odd.  Shows a sudden climb and then nothing 

[Sixstring2k]

My thoughts and prayers with the families. 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Sixstring2k

[Hank]

46 minutes ago, exM20K said:

Yes on the TKS.  Dunno about FIKI.

I see the wing panels, but nothing is on the prop. That makes it inadvertent, doesn’t it? 

[Ragsf15e]

24 minutes ago, Hank said:

I see the wing panels, but nothing is on the prop. That makes it inadvertent, doesn’t it? 

Other airplanes I’ve seen have the prop slingers just inside the spinner, so they aren’t visible.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Ragsf15e

[shawnd]

This is a sad loss. Don't know the pilot but seen the plane around on the field. Weather here has been absolutely crappy all day with freezing levels starting at 10,000. If you are crossing the Cascades, you will want to be at least 9000' and above.

[philip_g]

3 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Other airplanes I’ve seen have the prop slingers just inside the spinner, so they aren’t visible.

Planes I've owned with slingers have the boots at the base of the blades to spread the fluid. I can't see them on this plane. Either it doesn't have them because it doesn't need them or doesn't have slingers or I just can't see them

Edited October 29, 2021 by philip_g

[carusoam]

Alert for @mike_elliott (Bravo Lost in Washington State area… tough weather)

Prayers,

-a-

[Boilermonkey]

The ADSB speed reports are unusual for a normal flight even if turbulent.  From what I gather ice was a contributing factor.  A good reminder for any light airplane even with some anti-de ice capabilities.

[philip_g]

18 minutes ago, Boilermonkey said:

The ADSB speed reports are unusual for a normal flight even if turbulent.  From what I gather ice was a contributing factor.  A good reminder for any light airplane even with some anti-de ice capabilities.

We don't know if that's a fiki install but there can be large differences in the no hazard vs fiki TKS installs. I've had some bad icing encounters in a no hazard tks. Upgraded to a fiki airplane and it wasn't a problem ever again. All speculation at this point.

[Boilermonkey]

LiveATC. 

The flights started with not following the DP. (just stating as fact)   It's s straight forward DP, not a big mistake, but it ....

The flights sounds normal as he follows radar vectors for a climb from the first and second controller. 

Nothing really of note in the recordings since I can't confirm if he made the switch to 120.3, but it looks like approach was trying to find him on the prior frequency.  The only audio that has the pilot's voice was the first, so we can't gauge the tone of the exchange.  Never talked about ice, but other aircraft were.   Sad to hear approach calling for him.

Always looking to learn from these events.

 

Starts at 13:30 into the clip then goes to center at 17:35.  https://archive.liveatc.net/kpae/KPAE2-Oct-28-2021-1530Z.mp3

then to https://archive.liveatc.net/ksea/KSEA2-App-CHINS-Oct-28-2021-1530Z.mp3 starting at 20.55, only hearing the controller though.  26:53

https://archive.liveatc.net/ksea/KSEA2-App-KPAE-Oct-28-2021-1530Z.mp3  23:25min in says switch to 120.3, sounded like a reply, but later on the same freq. is looking for him.

Shortly here:  https://archive.liveatc.net/ksea/KSEA2-App-KPAE-Oct-28-2021-1600Z.mp3   approach calls at 4min, 6:30 and 7:50 into the clip.  Probably looking, sad. 

Can't find a recording of 120.3.
 

 

[Ragsf15e]

44 minutes ago, Boilermonkey said:

LiveATC. 

The flights started with not following the DP. (just stating as fact)   It's s straight forward DP, not a big mistake, but it ....

The flights sounds normal as he follows radar vectors for a climb from the first and second controller. 

Nothing really of note in the recordings since I can't confirm if he made the switch to 120.3, but it looks like approach was trying to find him on the prior frequency.  The only audio that has the pilot's voice was the first, so we can't gauge the tone of the exchange.  Never talked about ice, but other aircraft were.   Sad to hear approach calling for him.

Always looking to learn from these events.

 

Starts at 13:30 into the clip then goes to center at 17:35.  https://archive.liveatc.net/kpae/KPAE2-Oct-28-2021-1530Z.mp3

then to https://archive.liveatc.net/ksea/KSEA2-App-CHINS-Oct-28-2021-1530Z.mp3 starting at 20.55, only hearing the controller though.  26:53

https://archive.liveatc.net/ksea/KSEA2-App-KPAE-Oct-28-2021-1530Z.mp3  23:25min in says switch to 120.3, sounded like a reply, but later on the same freq. is looking for him.

Shortly here:  https://archive.liveatc.net/ksea/KSEA2-App-KPAE-Oct-28-2021-1600Z.mp3   approach calls at 4min, 6:30 and 7:50 into the clip.  Probably looking, sad. 

Can't find a recording of 120.3.
 

 

Interesting on starting off the flight on the wrong foot with the DP.  Didn’t sound super confident to me either, wondering if he’s been out of ifr flying for a while?  
So nothing later explained the almost 180 degree turn, then back 180 degrees, then continue for several minutes, then 90 left?  He was going up and down pretty aggressively in there too, I would think center would be talking to him as he did this?

[exM20K]

2 hours ago, philip_g said:

We don't know if that's a fiki install but there can be large differences in the no hazard vs fiki TKS installs. I've had some bad icing encounters in a no hazard tks. Upgraded to a fiki airplane and it wasn't a problem ever again. All speculation at this point.

The cirrus FIKI vs no-hazard systems are very different in panel size, surfaces covered, and system capability.    Mooney are very similar but with more redundancy in the FIKI system.

 

I had the no hazard system in my 231, and it was optional to retain the electrically heated prop.  I chose the alky prop because the hot prop was a constant source and f frustration.  I agree that this prop appears unprotected.

-dan

Edited October 29, 2021 by exM20K

[exM20K]

One failure mode I’ve had in the Acclaim occurred after the plane was outside in the rain for two days. I didn’t run it on the ground, but rather waited until I was pretty high and approaching clouds below freezing.  The panels wouldn’t wet out at all.  System fu ctioned mostly normally back on the ground.  All I can think of is that water got into the membrane on the ground and froze aloft.  I won’t let that happen again.

-dan

[skyking24212]

I was on the ground and we had record rains that day with reported turbulence and PIREP ice at 8K.  First winter like storm of the season.  Sad because the weather looks great this weekend.  Delaying departure two days could have saved a life if the weather was the main factor.   They video they show from King5 is far better than the actual conditions that morning.  Here on Friday, there is minor flooding due to the rain.   When in doubt, chicken out.

[milotron]

22 hours ago, Ragsf15e said:

Other airplanes I’ve seen have the prop slingers just inside the spinner, so they aren’t visible.

On the downward facing prop you can see the rubber spreader. Probably TKS prop.

I cancelled a flight and drove on Tuesday heading up to northern Vancouver Island. Similar weather and reports. Too many icicles showing up in Foreflight for my comfort.

Very sad to read about.

[Ragsf15e]

40 minutes ago, milotron said:

On the downward facing prop you can see the rubber spreader. Probably TKS prop.

I cancelled a flight and drove on Tuesday heading up to northern Vancouver Island. Similar weather and reports. Too many icicles showing up in Foreflight for my comfort.

Very sad to read about.

Yeah you’re right, I see it now.

[philip_g]

More speculation but going from a sf50 with brand new glass to a potentially older Mooney panel could be problematic if you're Rusty. Not the flight to find out you can't remember how to operate something.

Edited October 31, 2021 by philip_g

[13Alpha]

Word is it was NOT the sf50 pilot. He had this Mooney and just sold it to a guy from the Midwest, hence the unchanged registration. This was the new owners flight to take it back home…beautiful weather was just two days ahead.